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I agree in large part with Ivorytickler's post. I took a bit of a beating on the parenting board here when I stated that my kids needs were not ALWAYS my number one priority. Sometimes my husband or I got to come first and the kids were second. It is indicative of the thoughts of parents out there today. They think their kids should ALWAYS come first. When kids grow up that way they grow up to be egotistical and spoiled. In our family we all get to come first sometimes, even the dog.
mom may have been at home but that doesn't mean she took interest in schoolwork. When i was a kid, parents were not involved. You never saw mothers volunteering at schools or as room mothers. I don't remember my mother or my friends mother's ever going on field trips. No one helped with our homework either. Either we brought home a good report card or we got beaten and grounded until the next one came out. What's really different today is consequences. It's the self esteem movement that started around the 1980's that did the damage. Parents are too worried about johnny's fee fees to discipline him. I can't tell you how many parents i've seen come in during the day to turn in their children's homework that they just finished for them. In my day we were just children. Today, children are mommy's special snowflakes and have to be handled with care never before afforded to children (in other words, they're egotistical, self centered and think they should be spoiled)
i think it may have to do with staying home vs. Working moms but i think it's backwards from what you're thinking. As workload at home decreased and mom wasn't needed there just to keep the place clean, she needed a excuse to stay at home if she was so inclined that that becamse her children's "needs". Suddenly, children "needed" a stay at home mom who was involved in thier lives protecting their egos all along the way. I think that is what changed everything not mom's working. When i was a kid, our parents weren't involved in our schooling whehter they worked or not. Involement was asking "do you have homework?". (now parents expect the school to call home and remind their child he has homework because, apparently, he can't remember.) in my day, our parents just expected us to do what we were supposed to and we knew we wouldn't sit down for a week if we didn't. In my day you did not threaten a teacher and have your mom screaming at the principal about how the teacher deserved it because she disrespected her son. My parents would never have told a teacher she has to earn their child's respect. I would have been back handed into tomorrow if i showed any disrespect to at teacher. Any adult really.
No it's not mom's working status that is the issue. It's wimp parenting. Children have become the center of the family. Everything revolves around them. Mom even quits her carreer just for them. Their feelings and egos are oh so important these days. We can't have winners anymore because that means you have losers so everyone gets a trophy just for participating. We treat our children like fragile glass now and then scratch our heads when they don't develop actual ability.
In my day there were winners and losers and you were expected to handle either one with grace. If you didn't do your work, you got a bad grade and you didn't sit down for a week. Teachers were respected. Now, it's everyone's fault but the student's when they fail. I have to make sure i call parents whose children are failing and give them enough lead time to fix the situation before i can fail them. I teach 10th and 11th graders. Why am i calling mommy if they don't do their homework. At what point does it actually become their homework.
There is very good reason to assign seating. If I let my students sit where they want, all they do is talk and I lose, precious, class minutes gaining control of the class. Also, assigned seating makes attendance easier. It takes time to look around the room and find each student when they switch seats. It's like playing where's Waldo 30 times an hour.
Assigned seating is not treating them like children. It streamlines taking attendance and learning names. Remember, teachers have upwards 140 names to learn every semester. It takes me about 8 weeks to remember the patterns my students sit in in each class and then about another 6 before I can remember their names (all students) when they're not in their correct seat in their correct hour. It does not help that class rosters are, usually, in flux for about the first month of school.
And it's not the fault of the schools that students are being pushed towards college. Society decided that everyone should go to college so now, a college degree is required where one never was before. Trust me, I'd love to see some of my students go the vocational route. Not everyone is college material or even wants to go to college if they are. Unfortunately, the days when you could get a good job with some vocational training and a high school diploma are dwindling fast.
I have a brother whose IQ is well into the genius range who decided, after one semester of college, that college was not for him. He took what he learned in auto shop in high school and started a career as a mechanic. He's done very well for himself and most of what he learned was on the job training. Today, you pretty much have to have a two year tech degree to start down that path and it's not the fault of the schools. It's the fault of the "Every child is special" movement. It's the fault of parents who wanted to believe that THIER child was college material. Used to be only the top 12% graduated from college now everyone is expected to because no parent wants to accept that their child is average. After all, mommy's special snowflake has no limitations. The sky is the limit and don't you try to tell her otherwise. Blame your parents not the schools.
I think there's definitely a correlation between treating students below their age group and below their capabilities...and low test scores, low reading levels, low motivation. At the highschool I went to, students age 15-18 were treated much lower than their capabilities.
Not just assigning seats.
-Still needing a parents note or parents signature if you're absent in 11th or 12th grade. 17 and 18 year old people.
-Can't leave campus or restricted. Yet at 18 at community college, you're free to leave campus and come and go.
-And generally just not trusting them and not treating them like an individual.
I agree there's a lot of names to learn, but in college, I dont remember any assigned seating. Esp in auditorium styled seating halls, with 100 or 150 students.
-I think the schools encourage college tremendous. It's subtle, but it permeates every facet of a modern school. "You can do better". "Try harder". Aim higher. That means going to college. Aiming higher does not mean vocational or technical training in most modern highschool. Then all the testing, sat testing. In modern highschools, there are a bunch of gears at every grade level, and at every key interval that pushes students into the college direction. You need to apply to college at a certain date, you need certain letters of recommendation. Society does not do all of this, the schools facilitate it. That's how you get 70% of students going to college, or whatever the number is, and many shouldnt really be going.
Also the pyschological pressure from the point of the view of the student. What's the typical viewpoint? You're going to be a loser, you're going to work at McDonalds, you'll have no life, etc if you don't go to college. It's all very subtle.
The highschool I went to, did not tell students the truth about college. I think thats unforgivable. A lot of people trusted those teachers and counselors. They didnt tell them college degrees were getting watered down for 20-30 years. Didnt tell them any statistics about how, in the 70's, only a small percentage went to college. And now a lot more do. They presented a lot of testing and a lot of buswork before telling them the truth about college.
I dont think its parents fault. A lot of powerful forces with ($$$$) in their eyes are producing this crazy system. Too many things lined up too quickly (watered down, below your potential highschools + spiraling college costs + changes in laws, like being unable to discharge student bankruptcy in court). Its a way of immobilizing a whole generation of people.
On top of so much integrated learning. Being integrated in class with students who are not nearly at the same level as you are. In the 50's and 60's, you had classes that were 90% white. All their parents came from about the same background. Now, in a place like California (30 million people, I dont know how many students), you have 5 asian, 5 white, 25 hispanic (maybe 10 or 12 illegal) in a class. Allowing so many illegal students (who's parents have very low education) has watered the system down even more. How can you teach students who's parents have bachelors or masters, and students who parents have an 8th grade education at the same pace? And teach that for 4 years or 12 years. It holds back students from a more educated household. They could be going at a much faster pace. The whole thing has produced a mess.
I did not read through all the posts but I hear you loud and clear. As a person who graduated in the 70's it is more hardened and kids are expected to know more then before. I have 2 boys and in kindergarten had homework that tolled >1 hour - as it was suppose to according to the teacher. Let's add in the fact that when they started kindergarten they could count and read (went to an excellent pre-school) and excelled with "some" of their classmates. The teacher would break them into groups for many of the subjects (ie;math) - now we are dividing and conquering. The peer pressure is on, classes are broken up into groups according to the learning/comprehension level. What I saw happening with this is that the level of excellence went down.
As far as the volunteering, it was Colin Powell (wasn't it?) that called for a nation of volunteers. Some states incorporated it into the requirements for graduating. I read about a student who tried to sue the state over the matter; she had enough to do! It's great to teach compassion, but forcing students to volunteer is not the answer (compassion turns to resentment).
Current public school appears to be the "teacher's fault" when things go awry. I viewed parts of a very interesting documetary by author and director Cevin Soling "WAR ON KIDS" which addresses (from his viewpoint) some of what is happening in public schools now days. Things have definately changed.
As far as schools requiring more for graduation; yes.
I think you guys should study in europe for a year to see the differents, I studied in US for a year, and it was much easier than European(Dutch) high schools, even the AP classes were easy. the only thing i had trouble with was English Language and English class(Probably noticeble from my reply)
High School is only four years. High school students should only be two things...
Studying and staying in shape.
Undergrad students should be limited to two things...
Studying and staying shape
Grad students should be doing the following...
Studying, researching, and staying in shape.
I also feel that schools should be segregated based on gender. This will help male and female students concentrate on what they need to do in order to succeed in life. Courtship, sex, and marriage can come after adults are gainfully employed with steady incomes.
If we stuck to the basics, we probably wouldn't be in the recession.
I agree in large part with Ivorytickler's post. I took a bit of a beating on the parenting board here when I stated that my kids needs were not ALWAYS my number one priority. Sometimes my husband or I got to come first and the kids were second. It is indicative of the thoughts of parents out there today. They think their kids should ALWAYS come first. When kids grow up that way they grow up to be egotistical and spoiled. In our family we all get to come first sometimes, even the dog.
Asian kids do much better than typical Americans do, so much so that colleges now have for white Americans because if they didn't they would be crowded out by Asians.
Asian parents dote on their kids. There is an instance in which an Asian family visited Americans at home and the Americans put their kids on the living room rug to play and the Asians were horrified that the kids were on the floor!
Yet Asians tend to do so much better than Americans. On top of that the kids are polite and respectful and seem to genuinely love and want to please their folks.
I don't think Asian parents beat their kids, either, or threaten them.
I don't think strong arm tactics should be a substitute to good parenting. I think kids learn to respect their parents when the parents behave in respectable ways. I think when kids are young they must be appealed to through logic as much as possible with no raised voices or threats. Kids and animals behave best through love and respect. I think most who have kids are not willing to put in the time to rear them well, particularly in the early years.
No, kids should not be spoiled but you do not spoil a kid when you sit and find out what they are thinking about and guide their thought processes along healthy and successful lines.
I know a family that wanted to buy their teen son a new car and he said 'No, give me mom's old one and get her a new car'. That does not happen in most American homes, I'll wager, but it does if your kid has the right values and for that you have to start young and be consistent.
The fact is, there are parents who do pander to their kids, often the products of broken homes. They may be helping their own ego by doing this, but are doing the kids no good service.
There is also the fact that there are some really bad teachers in our school system. Well, maybe the lesson there for the kid is that there will always be things in life that are not fair, but you just deal with it in as adult a way as possible and do not show disrespect to anyone who has authority over you. It's like shooting yourself in the foot. We all have had dumb bosses. Maybe it's a good lesson to learn while in school.
Maybe mom's working has little bearing on a child's performance in school. THere has to be a secret to rearing kids well, and some have it and some don't. I wish there were a study of Asian households and the messages of love and expectations that they send their children. I think the kids do well in school out of love for the family and that they do not want to let mom and dad down.
Although our kids get material things and carted around a lot, somehow the message of love and the respect that grows from it seems not to be getting communicated properly.
Walk into a high school during school hours and you will see why kids have a tough time. Some students are disruptive during class time, there is no respect for the teachers, The teacher has to take the time to deal with the disruptive students, may lose his/her train of thought, and of course the students that are there to learn, lost their thoughts of what was trying to be taught before the interruption. I graduated in the early 70's, went to a very large suburban high school with over 2400 students in 3 grades. Since then parents have made sure teacher's rights have been taken away at dealing with a disruptive student. I have a friend that teaches high school and she has told me she doesn't know why she is there half the time. The parents don't care, therefore their own child doesn't care. She has had students threaten her if she doesn't give them a passing grade. She in turn tells them they will get the grade they earned and if they don't like it, then pay attention to what is expected of them in the class. And my gosh, the attitudes of the kids in the halls in between classes is horrible. None of my kids liked school and I found out why when I visited one day. They did fine in elementary school where a teacher has control of the class. Once they started high school the nightmares began.
Teen years probably should be handled differently, but I don't know how. Kids are aware of being herded from one classroom to another and memorize things that don't have a lot to do with the daily concerns of their lives.
Their lives are in some alternate universe where they are becoming biological adults yet not interfacing with the real world.
I doubt that they know, really, what to expect from the outside world they will graduate into. How would they? Which is why they sometimes make really dumb decisions. Many/most do not hold jobs, don't pay regular bills, etc.
Our colleges are dumbed down and high school grades sometimes not really earned. This makes the HS diploma necessary but not really respected all that much. The same is happening to the four year college bs degree.
Years back many with a hs diploma could look forward to a lifetime of boring and repetitive work that at least put bread on the table. Now, that is not even available.
So, they hear these things but they are not yet a reality. The future is uncertain and threatening to many.
graduating from high school is not hard. I did it myself. Anyone with half a brain can do it. For God's sake, people...
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