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The kind of school located in a town in which families are deeply religious. My ex-wife and kids all live in Arkansas. Ever since the kids were old enough to read they had their own children's bible. As they matured, so did the bible they were given. They go to church every Sunday and also attend bible study classes. As children (they're now adults), they actually enjoyed bible study classes because of the games they play as well as the arts and crafts, all with religious themes. It's a family and community gathering. Perhaps some students made their religious views known within the classroom and she took that as an opportunity to verbally attack them like the California "Jesus glasses" teacher did to one student. Students feeling their religious beliefs being attacked responded likewise. Normal behavior of defiance of 8th grade children. Her response was a normal response of a child, not a responsible adult in a position of responsibility. The nature of her behavior and facebook post speaks loudly of her blatant hatred of religion, probably exclusive to christianity.
I don't think it speaks of her "blatant hatred of religion" at all. She certainly should have been more prudent in her postings, but there seems to have been some impetus on the students' parts to introduce religion into science class. And you have to wonder if that impetus wasn't encouraged by some parents. A teacher trying to teach science would understandably be frustrated by disruptions to her science classes, and she vented. It doesn't mean she hates Christians, religion, or her students.
Teacher may lose job after derogatory comments about her students on Facebook: National Entertainment Book News | adn.com (http://www.adn.com/24hour/entertainment/books/news/story/1140770.html - broken link)
A middle-school teacher in Wake County, N.C., may be fired after she and her friends made caustic remarks on a Facebook page about her students (http://www.adn.com/24hour/entertainment/books/news/story/1140770.html# - broken link), the South and Christianity.
The suspension came after some of Hussain's students and their parents objected to comments on her Facebook page, many of them revolving around her interaction with her Christian students. Hussain wrote on the social-networking site that it was a "hate crime" that students anonymously left a Bible on her desk, and she told how she "was able to shame" her students over the incident.
Somehow, I am not surprised that you see this as only about a "bigot public school teacher" and not about "bigot public school children and parents" as well.
I think the teacher should not have posted those things on her public facebook - but having students mock your religion just because you are teaching the curriculum you're supposed to be teaching is not exactly pleasant, either.
Her lines about "hate crime" and being able to "shame" her students are actually pretty reasonable, though I still would not have put them on my own facebook page, let alone publicly.
Getting students to see that what they did was wrong is a pretty important lesson. There was no good reason for that bible to be on her desk - it was purely to get in her face and make her lose her cool.
Evidently and unfortunately, it worked.
"Parents also said Hussain sent to the office students who, during a lesson about evolution, asked about the role of God in creation."
Right.
There is a difference between asking about it and challenging the material in such a way that it is difficult to teach the lesson to the class - and I've heard that sort of interaction spun very effectively by parents and kids. "I was just asking a question!" protests the youngster, knowing full well that both the intent and effect of the manner and tone of questioning would make it clear to any listener what was going on, but being able to honestly repeat the words that make it sound innocent.
The teacher had lost control of the class and needed help - her facebook conversation made things worse, but the situation was deteriorating fast, from the sounds of it.
OTOH, the First Amendment does not include a clause that says "There are two classes of free speech - those for teachers and those for everybody else. Teachers have less."
It may not say it in the Constitution, but it says it in real life - as I have stated elsewhere (and as it is said in the linked article), teachers are held to a higher standard. That's just the way it is.
Wow, those students are really out of hand. The teacher should have been more careful with her Facebook privacy settings and what went up on her page, but her students sound like they really need a lesson on what is appropriate and what is not appropriate in a school setting.
Why am I not surprised to see some here supporting the teacher? The fact that you even think that parents force their kids to do this only shows your ignorance or hatred of christianity. You don't even think that it's possible the students were smart enough or had enough free will to do this on their own.
Why am I not surprised to see some here supporting the teacher? The fact that you even think that parents force their kids to do this only shows your ignorance or hatred of christianity. You don't even think that it's possible the students were smart enough or had enough free will to do this on their own.
There are parents who do force their kids to do such things.
Personally, I don't think that was the case in this instance.
But neither do I think believing parents capable of doing such a thing has anything to do with either hatred or ignorance of Christianity!
Ignorance of the mischievous and at times malicious nature of some children? ABSOLUTELY! Children can concoct that crap all on their own - it doesn't even require a devout Christian child - indeed, the more devout the less likely that would occur!
OTOH, I think the phrase "smart enough" is misapplied here - I think the kids in question were not smart enough to not do this.
Trouble-makers are trouble-makers, regardless of their purported faith.
Why am I not surprised to see some here supporting the teacher? The fact that you even think that parents force their kids to do this only shows your ignorance or hatred of christianity. You don't even think that it's possible the students were smart enough or had enough free will to do this on their own.
Of course it's possible that some students were smart enough and had the free will to choose to harass their teacher.
Because that's what they were doing, harassing their science teacher.
I'm certainly not saying that the teacher isn't guilty of wrong-doing. Her posts on Facebook were imprudent, and don't display the good sense we expect of our teachers.
But you seem to be saying that the students were in the right, when what they were doing was trying to disrupt the class. They have the right to believe what they want, and to protest. But in the classroom, when they consistently disrupt the class, they are stealing. There are certainly students there who want to learn. And those students shouldn't have their class disrupted by students who interrupt the teacher, who sing "Jesus Loves You", who try to upset the teacher with little digs about her beliefs. Religion isn't science. And has no place in the science class.
She didn't bring up religion.
Her students did, in response to a lesson on evolution.
I know how kids try to bring up religion whenever evolution is taught. In that situation, a teacher's response should be something like, "this is a science class, and we are only talking about science." The trick is to say it in a way that doesn't come off as bashing religion and doesn't give away one's one thoughts on religion. Anything else is asking for trouble, especially if the teacher has poor classroom management skills to begin with. I don't know exactly what happened because I wasn't there, but I can easily imagine the students said something about not "believing" in it, or "why do we have to learn this?" or something along those lines and it escalating into a confrontation between teacher and students. A lot of students resist learning about evolution, and teachers need to learn how to handle those situations.
And, of course, teachers who feel the need to complain about their students need to learn how to use privacy settings or do so anonymously. (I think most of us can agree on that)
Did the students behave in a ridiculous manner? Absolutely! I would be all for suspending them for such disruptive behavior.
Could this situation have been prevented with better classroom management and a bit of common sense? Yes!
I suppose the only thing that I have to say is that if you have such open and deep contempt for your students, you should go somewhere else, instead of making a public fiasco over it on a social networking site.
She sounds overreactive, dogmatic, and self-righteous to me based on her actions.
Last edited by NJmmadude; 02-16-2010 at 12:15 PM..
I don't think parents were suggesting that their kids do this, and I will even say that the kids in question might have legitimately had good intentions in some cases (like the bible on the desk, etc.). And I don't think the teacher showed much common sense to comment about it on Facebook. But how in the world do people make the leap to suggest that the teacher "hates" Christians? She just wants to be left alone to teach without having to deal with overzealous kids who are either very ardent in their religious convictions (in which case someone needs to sit down and talk to them about what's appropriate and what's not in different situations) or the more cynical view, kids who are troublemakers who are using religion as a way to harass their teacher.
The teacher didn't handle this well, but the kids were in the wrong here, too; not the wearing Jesus t-shirts thing, as that doesn't impact anyone, but the putting a bible on her desk, the anonymous Christmas card with the word Christ underlined, and all the other little things of similar nature. That's not appropriate, and it's up to the adults in the picture to address that. (although of course in a more effective and professional way than on Facebook).
I know how kids try to bring up religion whenever evolution is taught. In that situation, a teacher's response should be something like, "this is a science class, and we are only talking about science." The trick is to say it in a way that doesn't come off as bashing religion and doesn't give away one's one thoughts on religion. Anything else is asking for trouble, especially if the teacher has poor classroom management skills to begin with. I don't know exactly what happened because I wasn't there, but I can easily imagine the students said something about not "believing" in it, or "why do we have to learn this?" or something along those lines and it escalating into a confrontation between teacher and students. A lot of students resist learning about evolution, and teachers need to learn how to handle those situations.
And, of course, teachers who feel the need to complain about their students need to learn how to use privacy settings or do so anonymously. (I think most of us can agree on that)
Did the students behave in a ridiculous manner? Absolutely! I would be all for suspending them for such disruptive behavior.
Could this situation have been prevented with better classroom management and a bit of common sense? Yes!
And it the child does not believe in evolution he/she should not have to sit in a science class and be forced to hear about something that goes against his/her religion. And their grade should not be lowered if they refuse to take part in the lessons on evolution.......
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