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Old 02-20-2010, 03:26 PM
 
2,605 posts, read 4,672,609 times
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In so many threads I read of parents boasting their children being in AP classes and being in Gifted and Talented programs.

Is it that so many kids are exceptional? Or is it that our educational standards have dipped to an all time low and those in AP classes and G&T programs would have been what was norm 30 and 40 years ago.

It's clear that expectations have lowered considerably. It's all about the 'Feel Good Factor' now as opposed to higher academics. It's more important to make the students feel good and feel successful that slowly the academic expectations slid downward to accomodate that.

Back 30 and 40 years ago, there wasn't any such thing as AP or G&T. Students were expected to meet academic standards or stay behind the next year. On the rare occasion a student was truely exceptional, he or she would be moved ahead a year, but that was rare.

What do you think?
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Old 02-20-2010, 04:04 PM
 
2,195 posts, read 3,625,610 times
Reputation: 893
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoExcuses View Post
In so many threads I read of parents boasting their children being in AP classes and being in Gifted and Talented programs.

Is it that so many kids are exceptional? Or is it that our educational standards have dipped to an all time low and those in AP classes and G&T programs would have been what was norm 30 and 40 years ago.

It's clear that expectations have lowered considerably. It's all about the 'Feel Good Factor' now as opposed to higher academics. It's more important to make the students feel good and feel successful that slowly the academic expectations slid downward to accomodate that.

Back 30 and 40 years ago, there wasn't any such thing as AP or G&T. Students were expected to meet academic standards or stay behind the next year. On the rare occasion a student was truely exceptional, he or she would be moved ahead a year, but that was rare.

What do you think?
I think you are participating on an internet message board. This influences who posts and what their backgrounds and educational expectations are.

I think your comment that "In so many threads I read of parents boasting their children being in AP classes and being in Gifted and Talented programs" shows a failure to actually pay attention to what is actually posted, vs. your impression. There are 119 threads in the education forum with "gifted" in them, 19 of which were created by two posters in the last two years. 228 threads have AP in them. That's under 3% for "gifted" and 6.6% for "AP."

There are 409 threads with 'Gifted' in them on all of C-D. Out of more than 600,000 threads. Less than 0.1%, and you think there are oh so many?
***********

I think you are participating on an internet message board.

Back 30 and 40 years ago, there wasn't any such thing as an internet message board.

But there was AP - I took the AP in Math, English, and Physics 36 years ago this spring.

And there were G&T classes and have been for more than 100 years.

There are plenty of things to complain about in our education system, but it helps to do it from a factual basis, rather than in ignorance.

p.s. The word is accommodate, not 'accomodate.'
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Old 02-20-2010, 04:11 PM
 
2,605 posts, read 4,672,609 times
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You're just pi**ed because I don't agree with your thread.
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Old 02-20-2010, 04:16 PM
 
2,195 posts, read 3,625,610 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoExcuses View Post
You're just pi**ed because I don't agree with your thread.
Thank you for that informed response to my rebuttal to your mistaken information.

Your rationale above fails to explain away the factsof the matter:

1) APs are older than you think.

2) Gifted programs are far older than you think.

3) Neither gifted nor AP are claimed very often as a percentage of the whole by either number of members of C-D or total posts.
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Old 02-20-2010, 04:29 PM
 
11,642 posts, read 23,800,375 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoExcuses View Post
Back 30 and 40 years ago, there wasn't any such thing as AP or G&T. Students were expected to meet academic standards or stay behind the next year. On the rare occasion a student was truely exceptional, he or she would be moved ahead a year, but that was rare.

What do you think?
I graduated from HS in 1983. That's not quite 30 years ago, but 30 years ago I was in high school. My high school had honors classes and I took 3 AP courses my senior year. It must depend on where you went to school.

I do think that the academic standing to qualify for those AP courses has declined over the years but it's not like those classes just started last week.
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Old 02-20-2010, 05:03 PM
 
2,195 posts, read 3,625,610 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momma_bear View Post
I graduated from HS in 1983. That's not quite 30 years ago, but 30 years ago I was in high school. My high school had honors classes and I took 3 AP courses my senior year. It must depend on where you went to school.

I do think that the academic standing to qualify for those AP courses has declined over the years but it's not like those classes just started last week.
My school did not offer AP classes - the guidance office had never heard of them. But they still don't offer them, and they have heard of them, at this point.

The classes are far more accessible in some places and not others - and I do agree that in some cases, the breadth of abilities makes the classes less effective than they might be.
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Old 02-20-2010, 05:39 PM
 
3,763 posts, read 8,713,997 times
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In the 1950's there was the Joplin Reading Plan. As an exceptional reader, I used to have to take my 7th grade reading book as a third grader & walk up to 7th grade for reading & language arts instruction. It was rather terrorizing, actually.

In high school in the 60's we had advanced Chem-Studies, Advanced Biology, etc.

In high school, kids were placed into "tracks" & it was hard to get out of that assigned track: Scientific; Academic (both the college prep tracks); Secretarial; Shop; Vocational; etc. Completely different criteria was expected for each track.

More on "tracking":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tracking_(education)

Last edited by bongo; 02-20-2010 at 05:56 PM..
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Old 02-20-2010, 06:12 PM
 
Location: A Yankee in northeast TN
15,933 posts, read 20,899,784 times
Reputation: 43108
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoExcuses View Post

Back 30 and 40 years ago, there wasn't any such thing as AP or G&T. Students were expected to meet academic standards or stay behind the next year. On the rare occasion a student was truely exceptional, he or she would be moved ahead a year, but that was rare.

What do you think?
I was in "accelerated" classes in middle school in the seventies. Most kids were in standard classes. There were also remedial classes for the slower kids, even way back then holding a kid back was a last resort.
The rest of your post has been argued to death. G & T classes run all the way from exceptional to the "feel good" classes you refer to that give the programs such a bad reputation. Pointless to lump them all together as if they were all of equal merit.
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Old 02-20-2010, 06:36 PM
 
784 posts, read 2,723,864 times
Reputation: 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoExcuses View Post
In so many threads I read of parents boasting their children being in AP classes and being in Gifted and Talented programs.

Is it that so many kids are exceptional? Or is it that our educational standards have dipped to an all time low and those in AP classes and G&T programs would have been what was norm 30 and 40 years ago.

It's clear that expectations have lowered considerably. It's all about the 'Feel Good Factor' now as opposed to higher academics. It's more important to make the students feel good and feel successful that slowly the academic expectations slid downward to accomodate that.

What do you think?
Not really, look at the average SAT scores for the elite colleges over the past 20-30 years and you will see an upward trend. I worked as a telemarketer for my school's alumni fund, and most of the alumni who graduated in the 70s and 80s have told me that they wouldn't have any chance of getting in had they applied today.

Just because a child is enrolled in 3-4 AP classes doesn't mean he or she is special.
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Old 02-20-2010, 08:33 PM
hsw
 
2,144 posts, read 7,132,512 times
Reputation: 1540
To some extent test scores and GPAs can be "gamed" and have inherent inflation over the yrs
Am not convinced the % of "smart" kids (however one defines that) has materially changed in US over past 25yrs

Parents want to hear their kid is an honors student at some award-winning school
Teachers/admins negotiate their pay/promotions off various test score/ranking stats

But real-world market eventually calls bluff on all these scams by time kid is 25 or 30 or so...

Top colleges choose whom they want to admit
Top employers can be picky about only recruiting at certain prestigious colleges and only inviting kids above some GPA threshold in for intvws
At top employers like Goldman or Google, Stanford/Harvard alums are everywhere (and people from non-prestigious colleges are a rarity esp in the most lucrative jobs), so on-job perf determines one's career ascent (or lack thereof)
And if start a business, competitors and customers will judge one's value
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