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Today's kids don't fight fair. Groups of kids bully one student. If that one student dares to fight back, he now has to fight the entire group of students. In the above suicide case, the bullies weren't satisfied with bullying her while she was alive. They also went to the memorial webpage to continue with their attacks. They knew they drove her to kill herself and had no remorse. Put them in general prison population and tell the prison guards to take the day off.
Yea what that says!! Oh and send the parents and school officials in that let it get way out of hand and did not see the warning signs.
I do think American public high schools put far too much influence on team sports over actual education. Hence, the jock culture, bullying the weak, etc. Of course, bullying happens in the earlier grades, too, but in high school there seems to be a distinct pecking order based on one's connection to the jocks. I know in other countries the team sports are handled by the cities, not the schools...I wonder if that would help with some of the bullying. Also, in some countries, the kids who hate school and do not want to go to university are not placed in the same school as the ones who want to further their education. I don't see why we don't do this here. I was bullied (beaten up, actually) for being a "nerd" and for getting (gasp!) good grades, and I'm a girl...it did stop when I fought back, but the teachers and admin at my school practically WORSHIPPED the jocks. It was quite sad. And yes, I had a teacher blame me for the bullying.
I'm just going to go back to this post, because I think it shows where you're coming from. My public high school near Cleveland was exactly like the high school you describe in your home country. Most high schools are. Kids do unsavory things to rise in the pecking order, but almost all of them have some bounds of decency and compassion.
Bullying is about kids who don't have any bounds of decency and compassion. And the United States does have a large underclass of borderline-illiterate, completely immoral people, many of whom are segregated in the same schools. So in these schools, you see this kind of behavior.
My high school was very socioeconomically diverse. There were a couple of true bullies, meaning kids that belittle certain other kids mercilessly and without regard to any pecking order, only with regard to taking out their own frustrations. These kids were always from poor and/or broken families. The kids with any kind of money, or a father at home, or a sport or hobby to concentrate on, they never bullied anyone in the strict sense of the world. It just wasn't that important to them. It would be like sitting and poking a dying animal with a stick all day -- sick, and boring to boot.
My point is that we hear horrific stories about bullying and we (read: the media) want to make them into some grand social commentary about our country. The less interesting story is the truth: these bullies are just bad kids from bad families.
What does this mean for you? It means you don't have to worry. You're obviously smart and compassionate, and will in all likelihood raise pretty decent human beings. Your kids will be better off if you let them engage in healthy competitive activities, instead of conflating competition with sociopathy. You don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
so bullies, by your own reasoning, are always 'lower class'?
i think bullying will stop if people were taught how to defend themselves at a young age, both physically and verbally.
This is actually a very interesting commentary b/c it has made me realize that there isn't one type of bully.
I agree with you that insecurities are involved but I think the situation is more complex than that; it's roots are in competitiveness.
Why does a jock bully? These aren't adolescents who typically haave any reason to be insecure. And yet, a lot of bullies are such types of students.
Rather than supplying the simplified and obvious answer ("because he/she can"), I think it goes back to what I was saying about competitiveness. If you use a "jock" type as an example, I really think that insecurities are only part of the issue. With such types, there is a correlation between conformity and competitiveness, from which develop insecurities when a different perspective comes along and challenges it (in the form of another student who embodies other equally meritous qualities, perspectives, etc.).
In the case of this girl, rather than adopt the attitude that she was picked on b/c she didn't have a lot of friends and was therefore vulnerable, I think that it is more helpful to address why she didn't have a lot of friends. I don't think that it was just b/c she had just moved here; she also came from a different culture and obviously posed some kind of threat to these students, I imagine b/c she probably did not have the same perspective as they did, and that perspective was threatening b/c it challenged/competed with their own.
Suffice to say, I don't think that the issue is as simply as insecurities on the part of the bullies; there is much more going on here.
As someone wrote elsewhere in this thread, bullies are bullies because no one puts any boundaries around them. Bulluing is not born of competition, but of the inability to compete fairly; therefore I must do something underhanded or intimidating to gain advantage even thought that act has nothing to do with that over which we are competing. "I, the bully, am unable to compete on a level playing field and observe rules of decency and fair play".
I was bullied in Jr. High school by some of the worst of the worst. Some actually graduated to murder. One of the bullies is doing life for murdering Sal Mineo (he was an actor...I'm showing my age). Another is doing life for killing a cop. I was bullied until I got tired of it and stood up for myself. After trading a few bloody noses and black eyes with the bullies, they stopped bullying and respected me, or at least no longer saw me as a weak target. After one of our close encounters, one of them even told me that he didn't know I had it in me and he only bullied me because he thought he could get away with it. After that, no more problems from the bullies.
To be honest, given today's bullying climate in schools, I would have expected to see kids start killing the bullies instead of themselves. I think there's a certain justice to that. Before a bunch of you jump up and say that I'm advocating murder, re-read what I said. It's an expectation, not a recommendation. However, bullies need to recognize that you reap what you sow and everybody has a breaking point.
The issue is whether the anger or despair is turned inward on oneself, or outward, toward the bully. One day the bully is going to pick on the wrong kid on the wrong day. When that happens, too bad for the bully.
Weren't there bullies 40 years ago? How was it handled? For some reason, I don't seem to remember bullies in high school, just young kids in Grades 1 - 6. You know, I don't remember high school aged kids being picked on because the little bullies outgrew it. If my memory is correct, then why are today's bullies such immature jerks at 15, 16 and 17 years old?
so bullies, by your own reasoning, are always 'lower class'?
i think bullying will stop if people were taught how to defend themselves at a young age, both physically and verbally.
Thank you.
The reason bullying has rocketed itself to the news and causes suicides is because this has become a "victim" society. People sue over nothing because they assume the role of the victim. People raise their kids to feel like the victim anytime anything goes wrong. It's always someone else's fault.
The bully has easy pickings. Victims are everywhere these days because of the way parents keep their kids from being strong and standing up for themselves. As long as kids believe they are victimized they will continue to be victims.
A lot of wild animals eat their young if it's too weak to survive.
Bullies thrive in a victim society.
The reason bullying has rocketed itself to the news and causes suicides is because this has become a "victim" society. People sue over nothing because they assume the role of the victim. People raise their kids to feel like the victim anytime anything goes wrong. It's always someone else's fault.
The bully has easy pickings. Victims are everywhere these days because of the way parents keep their kids from being strong and standing up for themselves. As long as kids believe they are victimized they will continue to be victims.
A lot of wild animals eat their young if it's too weak to survive.
Bullies thrive in a victim society.
I think there are parents who wouldn't mind telling their bullied children to take something and knock the living h&!! out of the bully, but for:
1. Schools punishing both parties instead of just the bully. The adults never seem to see the bully but they see the victim fighting back.
2. Accelerated reactions, meaning bullies can and often do use weapons in retaliation if someone fights them back.
There is this weird expectation in the schools that if parents are raising their children well, those children will behave all the time outside of their parents' presence, including at school. Um, it doesn't always happen that way. And many children are very good at appearing to be an angel in front of the teacher and acting like the devil when the teacher's head is turned. And the staff in schools play dumb and pretend they don't know these things. Schools are responsible for the welfare of the students when the students are there. Point blank. It is what it is.
bully = the unfair the unjust. justice aka principle is a god quality. america is infected with injustice. we are no longer interested in fairness, we are interested in revenge aka payback. we become what we hate.
the CDF posts are full of evidence of america's lust of revenge.
kids are not born being unfair, they are taught to do so.
"payback" is the excuse for most violence adult or kid.
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Yea what that says!! Oh and send the parents and school officials in that let it get way out of hand and did not see the warning signs.
