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I have to say that it really depends on the school. In our area the only schools that really have IB programs are the sub-standard schools, with a couple exceptions. Most college bound students here take some AP but they mainly take the PESO (post secondary options) or the CIS (college in school) classes. They are college level classes high school juniors and seniors can take that dual count for college credits and high school credits. They are fully transferable unlike the hit and miss of AP and IB classes. Most students enter college with enough credits to start as a sophomore-some even as juniors.
My niece is in the IB program at her school and quite honestly, we have better class selection and more well rounded offerings then she has and our curriculum is more difficult then what she has.
Your daughter will be well prepared either way if her school has high standards. Our kids went to Catholic Schools for elementary school and I do miss the Catholic element to their education (and they do to) but we moved and the public schools in our town are excellent and they are happy there.
I went to an IB school and it is good college prep but I don't think that there is a huge difference between IB and AP. Both will ultimately get you to the same place imo so I don't think that any high school decision should be based on that factor alone.
I did a full IB diploma, as well as taking eight AP classes (that I can remember... It's been a few years now) and I think IB is better college prep than AP because in my experience AP classes were more teaching for the test, whereas IB had a broader intellectual focus (hey, it's got a required philosophy class!). Additionally, IB required papers and other research projects throughout the year and the tests themselves were entirely essay-based, except for the math and a portion of the science test.
Ironically, it all meant very little for me in terms of college credit, as much school would accept no more than 4 credits from AP/IB and all for elective credit. Nevertheless, I think IB provides a better introduction to the type of broader thinking required for college classes, as opposed to AP, which I found tends to teach facts for a multiple choice test.
For those of you who went through the IB program, was the work load as difficult as they make it out to be? Our older student is a straight A student in parochial school...but bored with the emphasis on simply memorizing for exams. Still, I do not think she is as good of a writer as IB might require.
Time wise, they say to plan on 4-5 hours a night of homework...if you are well organized.
I am just not sure if the 'deep level' thinking and significant work load are needed in high school. Isn't that what college is for?
I think that depends (most importantly) on what you want to get out of school and then what type of college you're trying to get into. The most competitive schools essentially require that you take the most challenging course load available to you, including AP and IB. That said, it certainly isn't most people's goal or desire to go to an Ivy or one of the top ten liberal arts colleges or some such school, so taking a challenging high school curriculum isn't important for that reason.
When I was in high school, I had a few classes that everyone was required to take (a newly-introduced civics class, some sort of computers class that they introduced each year, scrapped because it was so bad, and then created a new required one the following year...) and I was bored out of my mind. It wasn't only the lack of rigor of the classes, it was the teachers themselves. It certainly wasn't fair for the vast majority of students at my school who weren't taking AP or IB classes, but those classes definitely had the best teachers.
I'm trying to remember how much homework I did per night in high school... I remember I was always up pretty late at night, but then I had a lot of activities going on in the afternoon and I could be a pretty bad procrastinator! That said, 4-5 hours a night does sound right to me, if I had been responsible and done it all efficiently when I got home!
My two daughters went through the full IB diploma program. One is a very bright, but lazy, Bt - C student. She achieved 38 points. She managed to coast through her final two years of school with perhaps 5 hours of studying per week. The younger daughter, bright and hard working, Bt - A student, worked her butt off and achieved 41 points (45 is the maximum number of points possible on the IB diploma). She studied about 2 - 3 hours 7 days per week.
Both girls were required to do a certain number of CAS (Community Action Service) hours. Both did after school sports and their school had a very active, after-school, MUN (Model United Nations) program. The younger daughter was very active in MUN, racking up a lot of CAS hours through it. Both girls volunteered with a riding disabled program for their Service hours.
The full IB diploma will keep your child busy not only with study but also with the CAS requirement. Not to mention the many writing requirements. Your daughter will not be bored if she does the IB diploma, I assure you. But it's also manageable and teaches a child to use his/her time properly.
I did the IB diploma program, as well as took AP courses (presumably at one of those "substandard" schools mentioned above, but there was NOTHING substandard about it, and of course IB is an international program and is based on international, not local or state, standards -- which I find to be one of the most appealing aspects of the program.); I found IB to be far superior to AP. It is a lot of work, but it felt more meaningful and intellectually stimulating. It also involved more independent work (or at least it did in our program), which I liked.
For what it's worth, I, too, did Montessori in the younger grades, then moved to pre-IB for junior high, IB for high school.
I didn't spend 4-5 hours on homework each night, but that might vary by school, as well as time of the semester. There are times when it is very intense, but in my case, anyway, that seemed to ebb and flow. With less busywork and more papers and research projects there was also more ability to pace oneself (although there admittedly is a lot of reading that has to be done daily or near-daily to keep up). It is very writing-intense, as you note; you don't need to be a great writer, but I suppose it's true that it's easier if you are. On the other hand, all that intensive paper writing is a great education in itself. I think it was the writing component that made me appreciate IB so much more than AP. We wrote in all of our classes, including math; one of my most memorable IB projects was a research paper I wrote for one of my IB math courses.
IB course selection will vary by school. They'll all offer the basics necessary to complete the diploma, but there are a lot of course options that may not be offered in every school. I received college credits for some of both my IB and my AP classes.
I see you have received a number of "glowing" replies from former IBers. I am not a fan of IB. In fact, I have been tagged as the #1 critic of IB in the U.S. by Jay Mathews of the Washington Post. My objections are two-fold, ideological and fiscal. Over the years, I have watched IB's marketing and attempted to track data regarding graduates.
Since your daughter attended parochial school, I have to assume that you hold strong Christian values. IBO is an NGO of UNESCO. While you may find the rare Catholic school that has purchased the IB program, the vast majority of IB schools in the United States target low-income, under-achieving schools where it is used to draw wealthier white students into less desireable schools as a form of "social justice". Fully 1/3 of all IB schools in the world are in the U.S. I have never come across a school that was denied IB authorization, as long as the checks were good.
In any school, much of what the student gets out of a course, AP or IB, depends on the quality of the teacher. However, because IB is a "programme", it forces schools to schedule all other classes around the IB Diploma courses. Students often are unable to schedule chorus, band or orchestra and the Diploma students are often viewed as an "elite" group. I also think you might find some of the queries a student must conduct in TOK at odds with your personal ideals and values.
Please explore my website Truth About IB. My personal opinion is that IB is the biggest scam currently being perpetrated on American education and that AP is a much preferable option if you want your daughter to receive an education that does not contain a political agenda.
I see you have received a number of "glowing" replies from former IBers. I am not a fan of IB. In fact, I have been tagged as the #1 critic of IB in the U.S. by Jay Mathews of the Washington Post. My objections are two-fold, ideological and fiscal. Over the years, I have watched IB's marketing and attempted to track data regarding graduates.
Since your daughter attended parochial school, I have to assume that you hold strong Christian values. IBO is an NGO of UNESCO. While you may find the rare Catholic school that has purchased the IB program, the vast majority of IB schools in the United States target low-income, under-achieving schools where it is used to draw wealthier white students into less desireable schools as a form of "social justice". Fully 1/3 of all IB schools in the world are in the U.S. I have never come across a school that was denied IB authorization, as long as the checks were good.
In any school, much of what the student gets out of a course, AP or IB, depends on the quality of the teacher. However, because IB is a "programme", it forces schools to schedule all other classes around the IB Diploma courses. Students often are unable to schedule chorus, band or orchestra and the Diploma students are often viewed as an "elite" group. I also think you might find some of the queries a student must conduct in TOK at odds with your personal ideals and values.
Please explore my website Truth About IB. My personal opinion is that IB is the biggest scam currently being perpetrated on American education and that AP is a much preferable option if you want your daughter to receive an education that does not contain a political agenda.
Regards,
Lisa
Your website did quite a bit to make me an even bigger supporter of IB and regret not participating. Thank you.
I suppose if one is opposed to students learning how to research and evaluate information for themselves , then perhaps IB would be a bad option. It does expose children to potentially dangerous activities such as critical thinking.
I will agree that in some schools with a separate IB track the IB students can be tracked or treated as "elite." That did annoy me, and I know irritated some of our school's teachers.
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