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Old 05-30-2010, 08:52 PM
Status: "Current ear worm - tick tock goes the clock..." (set 5 days ago)
 
Location: Whoville....
21,656 posts, read 15,695,185 times
Reputation: 11266
Quote:
Originally Posted by toobusytoday View Post
Please let's either get back to the OP or just let this drop away. Ivory, your daughter has made her decision, hasn't she?
Yes. She chose to split grades, which was the original plan. She's a smart kid. I'm sure she made the right choice.

 
Old 05-30-2010, 09:47 PM
 
2,605 posts, read 2,512,640 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
You cannot teach what you do not know yourself. The student will pay for the limitations of the teacher. You cannot explain what you do not understand yourself.

Do you understand kinetic molecular theory well enough to teach it? Could you explain to your children why the average kinetic energy of the molecules in a block of wood and those in a glass of water are the same at room temperature? Would you even know they are the same? Can you explain latent heat? Do you even know what it is? Can you explain the precession of the equinoxes? Keppler's law? Or even why a prism breaks light up into the colors of the spectrum? Do you know why raindrops make rainbows? Can you draw the ray diagram that depicts the process? There are hundreds of things I could not explain if I weren't schooled in physical science that are easy for me to explain because I am. I'm not fool enough to think I'm qualified to teach any subject just because someone sends me materials.

There is a reason I'm not certified to teach english or history or even biology. It's because there are things I don't even know exist in those subjects. I'm not qualified to teach them even with material sent to me because I don't know enough to teach them.
I suppose you're right. That would explain why homeschooled kids are usually far ahead of traditionally schooled kids.

It would also explain why homeschooled kids have a better rounded education and why so many colleges are excited about homeschooled kids being accepted into their institutions.

Hmmmm, but then wouldn't that mean we parents who homeschool are 'experts' in most every subject? Something to think about.
 
Old 05-30-2010, 10:06 PM
 
Location: Eastern time zone
4,459 posts, read 3,849,262 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golfgal View Post
I posted a link to the program, feel free to do the research yourself.

Highly gifted students fall under the special education category, like it or not.
Golf, I think that classification varies from state to state. In Florida, gifted kids are a category of SpEd, but that's not the case everywhere.

Hoagies' Gifted: Gifted Education Mandates
 
Old 05-30-2010, 10:18 PM
 
Location: Eastern time zone
4,459 posts, read 3,849,262 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Wallace View Post
A rose by any other word...

The fact is, if you're highly intelligent -- particularly for your age -- you just tend not to like the same things that other folks closer to the bulge of the bell curve do. That is part and parcel of what makes up "preferences" in the first place.

Some examples of what I mean:

Person A loves the Monty Python sketch during Holy Grail in which a peasant declares that he and his fellows have formed an anarcho-socialist collective and claim that they're being "repressed" when Arthur claims to be king of all Britain. They find the deliberate anachronism of a Marxist rebel in ancient Britain to be very amusing and love the clash between buying into the Arthurian mythology about the Lady of the Lake and Excalibur and questioning why a "watery bint" who "lobs a scimitar" at Arthur makes him the supreme authority.

Person B is wondering who King Arthur is.
<eg>

I always found Woody Allen's Love and Death to be a good date-winnower, myself. (Extra points if he could actually follow Sonya's speech about love and suffering on the first run-through.)
 
Old 05-30-2010, 10:23 PM
 
Location: Eastern time zone
4,459 posts, read 3,849,262 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
It, most certainly is true. I'm talking about my qualifications to teach my children and the higher they go, the less qualified I am to teach them (with the exception of chemistry, physics and math which I am qualified to teach). I don't consider using internet programs from colleges home schooling. That's online schooling. I don't want my daughter in online classes. IMO, there is a lot missed when you don't have class discussions and don't hear the questions your peers have asked. I think this is, especially, important during high school and early college. For a masters program, online is probably fine. I wouldn't do it for high school and lower level college classes. I also wouldn't do it for the higher level science classes. Might be fine for an English class.

Your opinions and reservations, however, do not define the world's experience.
 
Old 05-31-2010, 04:45 AM
Status: "Current ear worm - tick tock goes the clock..." (set 5 days ago)
 
Location: Whoville....
21,656 posts, read 15,695,185 times
Reputation: 11266
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aconite View Post
Your opinions and reservations, however, do not define the world's experience.
The problem is, when I was uneducated I would have agreed. Then I got an education which opened my eyes to how much I just didn't know before and how much I really don't know now. Now that I know some of what I didn't know before, I'm certain an educaiton in the subject you are teaching is necessary to do the job well. When I was ignorant, I would have made the same claim that you don't need to know the subject, you just need the materials. It really doesn't work that way. We woulnd't accept the same argument from a school teacher. Why we accept it from parents is beyond me.
 
Old 05-31-2010, 04:49 AM
Status: "Current ear worm - tick tock goes the clock..." (set 5 days ago)
 
Location: Whoville....
21,656 posts, read 15,695,185 times
Reputation: 11266
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoExcuses View Post
I suppose you're right. That would explain why homeschooled kids are usually far ahead of traditionally schooled kids.

It would also explain why homeschooled kids have a better rounded education and why so many colleges are excited about homeschooled kids being accepted into their institutions.

Hmmmm, but then wouldn't that mean we parents who homeschool are 'experts' in most every subject? Something to think about.
No it doesn't mean they are experts in every subject. Sorry but demographics alone would predict home schooled kids should be doing better than they are. Correlation does not imply causation. The same demographic does extremely well in public school as well where they have experts to learn from. Problem is the data can't be disected to compare the same demographic and make it a fair comparison. Saying they do better than a system that has to take and educate anyone regardless of background, ability, parental involvement, family income or quality of homelife isn't saying much at all. You'd be ashamed if you couldn't do better 1:1 with your child given the average demographic of homeschooled children predicts success but that doesn't mean YOUR CHILD is doing better as a homeschooled child than they would in the public school system. After all, they'd still have the same ability, home life and involved parents. They'd just have experts teaching them IN ADDITION TO amateurs. You can conclude that makes no difference if you want but I find that an illocigal conclusion. My kids have BOTH me AND their teachers. So they have what I know to teach AND what their teachers know to teach and explain in addition to the supplied materials. I can't come up with a reason why more teachers, some with higher qualifications would mean less education.

If I had homeschooled my dd, she'd be well ahead of the curve but she wouldn't he ahead because I homeschooled. All the reasons why she's ahead don't go away if I homeschool. Only one does and that's experts to learn from. My belief is she would not be as far ahead as she is if you took that part out but, just being who she is, she'd be far enough ahead to be impressive. There would, definitely be holes in her education though as there are things I simply wouldn't know to teach her because I can't teach what I don't know exists.


1) Homeschooled children are disproportionatly from middle class households with both parents in the household and have parents involved in their educations (three predictors of success).

And

2) Only people for whom homeschooling fits and works stick with it. Others quit and send their children back to the public school system or private schools so only the successes get counted.

If I could look at the same demographic and pick only kids for whom public education is a good fit, I'd show you results way beyond what homeschoolers are doing. You cannot conclude from the fact homeschooled children do better than average that homeschooling is better when demographics alone would predict that those children would do better than average in any system. You are taking something that happend naturally because of demographics and trying to say it means homeschooling is better. I hope you're not teaching logic to your children.

Last edited by Ivorytickler; 05-31-2010 at 05:10 AM..
 
Old 05-31-2010, 08:01 AM
 
2,605 posts, read 2,512,640 times
Reputation: 2097
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
The problem is, when I was uneducated I would have agreed. Then I got an education which opened my eyes to how much I just didn't know before and how much I really don't know now. Now that I know some of what I didn't know before, I'm certain an educaiton in the subject you are teaching is necessary to do the job well. When I was ignorant, I would have made the same claim that you don't need to know the subject, you just need the materials. It really doesn't work that way. We woulnd't accept the same argument from a school teacher. Why we accept it from parents is beyond me.
For some, an education does not eradicate the ignorance... .
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