12 year olds in high school (colleges, score, logic, courses)

[Ivorytickler]

Originally Posted by golfgal

I posted a link to the program, feel free to do the research yourself.

Highly gifted students fall under the special education category, like it or not. SHE DOES have special educational needs, just at the opposite end of the spectrum. Your choice though to have her meet her potential or hold her back because you think she will get some false sense of superiority out of the deal but face it, if she really is that smart, she WILL get that corner office and what ever else she wants in life.

I agree that she will be happier with her friends, which is why our G/T program in our schools is so nice-it challenges the kids yet keeps them with their friends.

I didn't ask for a link to a program. I asked you to back up your claim that "most" college bound students in your area graduate with 1-2 years of college credit. I think that's bunk. I don't care if it can be done. It can be done here. My dd will be on that program. You claimed that "most" college bound students do this where you are. Please post proof of that claim. Where are your stats to back up that "most" college bound students in your area/state/whatever, graduate with 1-2 years of college credit finished?

Don't worry. I won't hold my breath.

As to my daughter, she's doing fine so no she doesn't have special education needs. If she had "needs" that are going umnet, she wouldn't be learning at the pace she is. Her success is proof that she doesn't need special accomodations. If it takes special treatment for her to learn, as you claim, why is she managing to do so without special treatment?

[golfgal]

Originally Posted by Ivorytickler

I didn't ask for a link to a program. I asked you to back up your claim that "most" college bound students in your area graduate with 1-2 years of college credit. I think that's bunk. I don't care if it can be done. It can be done here. My dd will be on that program. You claimed that "most" college bound students do this where you are. Please post proof of that claim. Where are your stats to back up that "most" college bound students in your area/state/whatever, graduate with 1-2 years of college credit finished?

Don't worry. I won't hold my breath.

As to my daughter, she's doing fine so no she doesn't have special education needs. If she had "needs" that are going umnet, she wouldn't be learning at the pace she is. Her success is proof that she doesn't need special accomodations. If it takes special treatment for her to learn, as you claim, why is she managing to do so without special treatment?

Like I said, I provided a link to the program, feel free to do the research yourself. I really don't care if you think it is bunk, the information is out there, just look it up. From what you have said your program is NOT the same as MN's. If your high school kids have to take all their high school classes first and THEN take the college classes, your students couldn't possibly get the number of credits our students do. In our program if they take a college level English course, for example, that counts as college credit and satisfies the high school credit at the same time. Same thing with math, science, whatever. Usually kids take the college level Language Arts, Math and Social Studies classes since LA and SS have a 4 year HS requirement and math has a 3 year requirement for graduation. So, if a high school student takes say 2-3 college level courses a semester, which is pretty typical, that is 4-6 courses/year for 2 years at 4 credits each, I will let you do the math.

If your DD doesn't need special accommodations, why are they talking about moving her ahead a grade--that is a special accommodation.

[Charles Wallace]

Originally Posted by Ivorytickler

As to dd thinking kids younger than her are babies, she doesn't. She never has. The kids she's gone to school with are quite respectful. That's what they've been taught at home. She doesn't care to play with them simply because they're not into the same things she is.

Please consider the implications of your final statement.

[Ivorytickler]

Originally Posted by golfgal

Like I said, I provided a link to the program, feel free to do the research yourself. I really don't care if you think it is bunk, the information is out there, just look it up. From what you have said your program is NOT the same as MN's. If your high school kids have to take all their high school classes first and THEN take the college classes, your students couldn't possibly get the number of credits our students do. In our program if they take a college level English course, for example, that counts as college credit and satisfies the high school credit at the same time. Same thing with math, science, whatever. Usually kids take the college level Language Arts, Math and Social Studies classes since LA and SS have a 4 year HS requirement and math has a 3 year requirement for graduation. So, if a high school student takes say 2-3 college level courses a semester, which is pretty typical, that is 4-6 courses/year for 2 years at 4 credits each, I will let you do the math.

If your DD doesn't need special accommodations, why are they talking about moving her ahead a grade--that is a special accommodation.

Again, I didn't ask for a link to a program. I asked you to prove your, ludicrous, claim that MOST college bound graduates are graduating with 1-2 years of college credit. I'll just assume you were lying since you refuse to prove it. I'm fully aware that programs exist where students can do this. I never asked for a link to those programs. I asked you to prove your claim that MOST college bound high school graduates are graduating with 1-2 years of college credit. I don't believe you for one second. And I'm not responsible for searching your link to back up your claim. You are. If you refuse to do so, you've damaged your credibility.

Again, I think the claim that MOST college bound high school students are graduating from your district with 1-2 YEARS of college credit is not true. Please either prove it's true or admit you made that up. It's up to YOU to prove what you said not me. And providing me with a link to a program where this is POSSIBLE doesn't prove that MOST college bound high school grads are doing it. My dd will graduate with 1-2 years of college done but she will be one of only a few students in our district who will do that. A higher number will graduate with some college credit but I have no idea what the percentages would be but I'd guess it's not most students.

Please cut and paste the statistics part from your link that supports that MOST college bound students, where you are, are graduating with 1-2 YEARS of college credit. I'm not tallking most students in this program. I'm talking about what you claimed which is that MOST COLLEGE BOUND students are doing this. First you'll have to support that MOST college bound students are on this program AND that a significant number of those complete 1-2 YEARS of college credit so it works out that MOST college bound students are doing so. It shouldn't be hard to prove...unless, as I suspect, you made this up. Seriously, I don't believe any district/state has managed this feat. If they did, I'd question how low their high school curriculum must be to have that many students needing classes at the community college level that early. You're talking a system that is sending the majority of it's 11th graders to college classes. Sorry, but this I have to see to believe. Please take 5 minutes to post the data that supports your claim that MOST college bound students are completing 1-2 YEARS of college credit before high school graduation.

Moving my dd up a grade isn't special accomodations. It's putting her in an already existing classroom with an already existing teacher and already existing students learning an already existing curriculum. It's her adapting to the system not the system adapting to her. We've done a grade skip before and the first few months are tough. She has to learn everything missed in the skip. She does it and then settles in. She has decided she'd rather stay with her friends this time and that's ok. It does mean she'll end up spending her senior year at the community college but if she graduated early, she'd be there anyway. My only regret is she'll, pretty much, miss her senior year. Fortunately, she will be one of several students, in her school, on dual enrollment. Unfortunately, we can't lay claim, as you claim, that most of our students do this.

[Ivorytickler]

Originally Posted by Charles Wallace

Please consider the implications of your final statement.

What is your point? Her friends, no matter what their ages or intellectual ability are into the same things. This has nothing to do with either age or intellectual ability. It has to do with preferences.

[golfgal]

Originally Posted by Ivorytickler

Again, I didn't ask for a link to a program. I asked you to prove your, ludicrous, claim that MOST college bound graduates are graduating with 1-2 years of college credit. I'll just assume you were lying since you refuse to prove it. I'm fully aware that programs exist where students can do this. I never asked for a link to those programs. I asked you to prove your claim that MOST college bound high school graduates are graduating with 1-2 years of college credit. I don't believe you for one second. And I'm not responsible for searching your link to back up your claim. You are. If you refuse to do so, you've damaged your credibility.

Again, I think the claim that MOST college bound high school students are graduating from your district with 1-2 YEARS of college credit is not true. Please either prove it's true or admit you made that up. It's up to YOU to prove what you said not me. And providing me with a link to a program where this is POSSIBLE doesn't prove that MOST college bound high school grads are doing it. My dd will graduate with 1-2 years of college done but she will be one of only a few students in our district who will do that. A higher number will graduate with some college credit but I have no idea what the percentages would be but I'd guess it's not most students.

Please cut and paste the statistics part from your link that supports that MOST college bound students, where you are, are graduating with 1-2 YEARS of college credit. I'm not tallking most students in this program. I'm talking about what you claimed which is that MOST COLLEGE BOUND students are doing this. First you'll have to support that MOST college bound students are on this program AND that a significant number of those complete 1-2 YEARS of college credit so it works out that MOST college bound students are doing so. It shouldn't be hard to prove...unless, as I suspect, you made this up. Seriously, I don't believe any district/state has managed this feat. If they did, I'd question how low their high school curriculum must be to have that many students needing classes at the community college level that early. You're talking a system that is sending the majority of it's 11th graders to college classes. Sorry, but this I have to see to believe. Please take 5 minutes to post the data that supports your claim that MOST college bound students are completing 1-2 YEARS of college credit before high school graduation.

Moving my dd up a grade isn't special accomodations. It's putting her in an already existing classroom with an already existing teacher and already existing students learning an already existing curriculum. It's her adapting to the system not the system adapting to her. We've done a grade skip before and the first few months are tough. She has to learn everything missed in the skip. She does it and then settles in. She has decided she'd rather stay with her friends this time and that's ok. It does mean she'll end up spending her senior year at the community college but if she graduated early, she'd be there anyway. My only regret is she'll, pretty much, miss her senior year. Fortunately, she will be one of several students, in her school, on dual enrollment. Unfortunately, we can't lay claim, as you claim, that most of our students do this.

Oh for crying out loud, the information you want is in that link, just LOOK IT UP. There are even some schools that call their program "Senior to Sophomore". You know, there are schools out there and states out there that have better programs then what you describe in all of your posts. Your school requirements are severely lacking compared to the requirements in MN. Just because something isn't possible in your school doesn't mean kids elsewhere are not capable of doing it and most college bounds students in MN DO do this whether you like it or not. Go camp out in our student parking lot and watch the number of kids going back and forth for these classes.

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Since you can't scroll to the bottom of the link I provided, here is the link to the schools and their participation numbers. One column shows how many students from each high school take post secondary classes. If you add up all the kids taking these classes statewide there are over 51,000 kids that take these classes. There are 291 students taking classes through the PESO program out of 440 in our high school alone. This doesn't count any of the AP or the College in School classes, JUST the classes taken either online or at a local college. In 2008 a little over 65,000 kids graduated from MN High schools so roughly half of the kids graduating take part in the PESO program per grade.

[Ivorytickler]

Originally Posted by golfgal

Oh for crying out loud, the information you want is in that link, just LOOK IT UP. There are even some schools that call their program "Senior to Sophomore". You know, there are schools out there and states out there that have better programs then what you describe in all of your posts. Your school requirements are severely lacking compared to the requirements in MN. Just because something isn't possible in your school doesn't mean kids elsewhere are not capable of doing it and most college bounds students in MN DO do this whether you like it or not. Go camp out in our student parking lot and watch the number of kids going back and forth for these classes.

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Since you can't scroll to the bottom of the link I provided, here is the link to the schools and their participation numbers. One column shows how many students from each high school take post secondary classes. If you add up all the kids taking these classes statewide there are over 51,000 kids that take these classes. There are 291 students taking classes through the PESO program out of 440 in our high school alone. This doesn't count any of the AP or the College in School classes, JUST the classes taken either online or at a local college. In 2008 a little over 65,000 kids graduated from MN High schools so roughly half of the kids graduating take part in the PESO program per grade.

For crying out loud, I didn't ask how many take any classes. I asked you to prove your claim that MOST GRADUATE WITH 1-2 YEARS OF COLLEGE COMPLETED. I don't see any such claim here. I don't believe it's true. I think you made that up.

Taking part in the program is not the same as graduating with 1-2 years of college credit. Taking part in the program could mean taking one class. We have plenty of students who do that here too. The number graduating with 1-2 YEARS of college credit completed though is very small.

[stan4]

I started high school early (because I started kindergarten early; not bc I skipped)...and I did fine academically and socially. Our valedictorian and salutatorian were the only ones in my graduating class younger than I was (by a few months).

[Ivorytickler]

Originally Posted by stan4

I started high school early (because I started kindergarten early; not bc I skipped)...and I did fine academically and socially. Our valedictorian and salutatorian were the only ones in my graduating class younger than I was (by a few months).

That is, probably, typical as the brightest kids are likely double promoted somewhere along the way. I doubt my dd will be valedicatorian. She doesn't have a drive to have straight A's and, sometimes, decides that a certain assignment just isn't worth her time but she is one of the brightest students in her class and happens to be one of the youngest because of her grade skip.

I would have started her in kindergarten early if they'd let me. Here there is only one requirement for kindergarten (public anyway) and that is the child must be 5 by December 1st. She was born December 24th.

[golfgal]

Originally Posted by Ivorytickler

For crying out loud, I didn't ask how many take any classes. I asked you to prove your claim that MOST GRADUATE WITH 1-2 YEARS OF COLLEGE COMPLETED. I don't see any such claim here. I don't believe it's true. I think you made that up.

Taking part in the program is not the same as graduating with 1-2 years of college credit. Taking part in the program could mean taking one class. We have plenty of students who do that here too. The number graduating with 1-2 YEARS of college credit completed though is very small.

Whatever--we will just keep on kicking your butt academically while you deny the possibility of this.