Learning a foreign language (interpretation, charge, best, GED)

[Miaiam]

StarlaJane, could you please explain this to me?

I do not have any intention to upset you, I just would like to learn the proper way to use a particular word.

I never thought the word "Anglo" was considered impolite... it is not a word I use often, but anyway I would like to understand it so that I do not make any mistakes when referring to English speakers (this is what I understand from the definition of Anglo when it comes to languages....)

Thanks!

[Jaggy001]

What an astonishing post

Originally Posted by StarlaJane

I have absolutely no idea what you mean by your last statement. Are you saying that b/c the word is not pejorative in Geneva then it is not pejorative at all? Are you kidding? Of course people in Geneva are not going to consider the word offensive; they're not the ones whom it is being directed at. I suggested the term non-native b/c it is just as effective and has no underlying racial implications. Quite frankly, I really don't care if someone in Geneva "means" something in the pejorative sense as I am going to be offended by that regardless. And I would think that people who pride themselves on tact, diplomacy and the foreign languages and cultures that are associated with international relations would use a word (like non-native speaker) that cannot be interpreted offensively by anyone.

I do not consider the word "anglo" to be pejorative and the context in which it was used was certainly not. If you have a problem with this then this is your issue and not mine.

Originally Posted by StarlaJane

Furthermore, you responded to my post. Secondly, you were talking about me when making comments re: translation et al. You clearly assumed that you were speaking to someone who doesn't know as much about langs as yourself, which is presumptuous and arrogant.

This is the your post that I responded to (post #6):

Originally Posted by StarlaJane

Is this the method that worked for you?

Quite how I am supposed to assume anything from that is a mystery to me. That you should be angered by my response says much more about you than it does about me.

Originally Posted by StarlaJane

Moreover, I don't believe that I "overstated the benefits" of the French that you learned in school. I was merely pointing out that an immersion environment is [usually] completely useless without some prior knowledge of the lang's grammar. You have yet to demonstrate that you were able to learn a lang only from being in an immersion environment.

I was talking about me and not about you. Please be reassured that it is not all about you.

Originally Posted by StarlaJane

Lastly, there is a difference between educated French speakers debating how to phrase something and not being able to write French. I really can't comment on your writing skills in French but your writing skills in English are clearly lacking.

Presumably the point of this passage is to criticize my written English. If your English comprehension were better then, perhaps, we could have a discussion.

[Jaggy001]

Originally Posted by Miaiam

StarlaJane, could you please explain this to me?

I do not have any intention to upset you, I just would like to learn the proper way to use a particular word.

I never thought the word "Anglo" was considered impolite... it is not a word I use often, but anyway I would like to understand it so that I do not make any mistakes when referring to English speakers (this is what I understand from the definition of Anglo when it comes to languages....)

Thanks!

This may help:

"While the term Anglo strictly refers to Anglo-Saxons, it has now come to represent English-speaking people of European descent. Those who speak English around the world are referred to as "Anglophones" and "Anglophone culture" represents any country where the official, or most-spoken language, is English. However, some people find this term offensive. Many Irish people have vehemently resisted this term, because although they speak English, they do not want to be lumped into the term "Anglo" with the British, whom they have long viewed as oppressors."

Definition of Anglo Americans | eHow.com

[StarlaJane]

Originally Posted by Jaggy001

What an astonishing post



I do not consider the word "anglo" to be pejorative and the context in which it was used was certainly not. If you have a problem with this then this is your issue and not mine.



This is the your post that I responded to (post #6):



Quite how I am supposed to assume anything from that is a mystery to me. That you should be angered by my response says much more about you than it does about me.



I was talking about me and not about you. Please be reassured that it is not all about you.



Presumably the point of this passage is to criticize my written English. If your English comprehension were better then, perhaps, we could have a discussion.

Your whole attitude is offensive. Moreover, I believe that your ^^ post illustrates that the term is, indeed, considered offensive by many people. Why you would continue to use a term that you know might offend someone is beyond me. Moreover, it is insensitive and self-centered to continue to use the term and insist that it isn't offensive b/c you don't mean it to be.

I also have no idea how you could have assumed anything from my post. But there you were, in your response, informing me about how translation works--"you always translate into your mother tongue" were, I believe, your exact words. There were also a couple of other incidences in your post in which you seemed to think that it was your duty to school all of us ignorant anglos about languages and how to learn them FYI, I was not the person asking how to learn a language--I already know several, which makes me now wonder about your comprehension of English.

How you don't understand that a post that assumes that I don't know anything about langs and then uses the term anglo is offensive is the only thing that I cannot comprehend. You may not have directed the term directly at me but you did use it as a general term to refer to all non-native speakers, including yourself, but also including a lot of other people, such as me.

[Chava61]

Originally Posted by anapurma

I have heard that one of many ways of learning the 2nd language is to find a person who is a native of this language and is interested in learning your native language. Then - just talk/mail/chat with her/him using skype or any other communicator.

Have you ever try to find such a person in the Internet and then exchange your language skills with her/him?

This is a good method for someone who already has a basic knowledge of the 2nd language in order to practice and not forget what they already know.
But to learn a language from the beginning one needs to study by taking some kind of course/class which can be a self-instructing one using the internet/dvds/cds or even better a immersion course in a classroom. The best way of course would be to travel to a country where the language is spoken and spent some time there only with native speakers of the language you want to acquire.

[StarlaJane]

Originally Posted by Miaiam

StarlaJane, could you please explain this to me?

I do not have any intention to upset you, I just would like to learn the proper way to use a particular word.

I never thought the word "Anglo" was considered impolite... it is not a word I use often, but anyway I would like to understand it so that I do not make any mistakes when referring to English speakers (this is what I understand from the definition of Anglo when it comes to languages....)

Thanks!

I think that Jaggy's post [including the definition] clearly illustrates that it can be interpreted offensively. I find the term offensive when referring to non-native speakers of foreign languages b/c it indirectly links language to race. I think that when referring to non-native speakers, you should do just that, and leave race out of it.

But then, I don't like any of those generalized terms b/c they are just that: general. They lump people and cultures of many different countries together and define them as having similar cultural traits b/c of the lang that they speak, which is not true. I am American. Most people would consider me an "Anglo" b/c of the way that I look and b/c my native lang is English. But I also speak Spanish and French and have non-immediate family members who are from Central America and whose native lang is Spanish. Thus, I also do not like the term Hispanic, either. I have heard many people using it (and the term "Anglo") to lump people who speak the same lang together and define them as "the other"--the people who are not like "us." Thus, they use such terms to exclude rather than to simply describe. Even when you don't mean to offend by using such terms, there is an implied meaning that I think can very easily be avoided by saying "non-native", especially when referring to langs. When referring to cultures, I think that making specific reference to the person's country of origin is better than using a general term to lump them in with people with whom they have nothing in common, culturally-speaking.

[Jaggy001]

Originally Posted by StarlaJane

Your whole attitude is offensive. Moreover, I believe that your ^^ post illustrates that the term is, indeed, considered offensive by many people. Why you would continue to use a term that you know might offend someone is beyond me. Moreover, it is insensitive and self-centered to continue to use the term and insist that it isn't offensive b/c you don't mean it to be.

I also have no idea how you could have assumed anything from my post. But there you were, in your response, informing me about how translation works--"you always translate into your mother tongue" were, I believe, your exact words. There were also a couple of other incidences in your post in which you seemed to think that it was your duty to school all of us ignorant anglos about languages and how to learn them FYI, I was not the person asking how to learn a language--I already know several, which makes me now wonder about your comprehension of English.

How you don't understand that a post that assumes that I don't know anything about langs and then uses the term anglo is offensive is the only thing that I cannot comprehend. You may not have directed the term directly at me but you did use it as a general term to refer to all non-native speakers, including yourself, but also including a lot of other people, such as me.

I think you are overly sensitive.

End of discussion.

[StarlaJane]

Originally Posted by Jaggy001

I think you are overly sensitive.

End of discussion.

And I think that you are insensitive and arrogant. End of discussion.

[Miaiam]

Oh, ok...

I completely understand your point regarding generalizing, but you really shouldn't get that upset... I guess most people truly have no intention to use certain terms other than giving them a cultural/linguistic meaning, even bc these are very complex subjects, and one would certainly not "define" someone only by the language(s) spoken. At least I think so...

I myself have used words as "Anglo/Franco" and other similar ones sometimes, without any intention to sound impolite whatsoever.

[Urban Sasquatch]

Miaiam, I wouldn't worry about it. Nobody said anything wrong, Jaggy explained himself perfectly well and at this point I wouldn't hesitate to say she simply CHOOSES to take offense.



With regard to the meaning of words, there are out-and-out borrowed words which take up residence in another language and then there are "false friends" which may seem like cognates or like they should be the same thing but really aren't (magazine in English to mean a periodical, versus magazin [transliterated, I can't type in Russian on this keyboard] in Russian, which means a store). It's not the best example but it is AN example.


One of the best military linguists I knew told me that he found, when practicing Russian, a good way to increase not only comprehension but vocabulary was to figure out how to say what he wanted to say and THEN figure out a different way to say the same thing.