El Paso vs. Albuquerque (Mission, Santa Fe: lawyer, loan, hotels)

[Chowhound]

Originally Posted by abqsunport

Actually, Economically you live in our shadow!


This forum has gotten too negative. I like El Paso, just not as much as Albuquerque. This guy made his choice, the forum has served its duty.

I just read through this thread and I gotta say amen!!!I'm not from either city and I'm like jeeze lighten up people

[6/3]

Originally Posted by Chowhound

I just read through this thread and I gotta say amen!!!I'm not from either city and I'm like jeeze lighten up people

I agree !! I wish Austin Traveler (texas moderatator) would close this thread.

[Chuco]

Originally Posted by abqsunport

WRONG!!!!!!! Santa Fe Metro alone (which includes the likes of Edgewood which is 20 minutes from albuquerque) is 183,506. So that alone is over 1,000,000. Add Grants, Los Alamos, Soccorro, et al. But way to not due a full all out research. And guess what, they all pay New Mexico taxes. Unlike the 650,000 of your citizens of yours that pay texas taxes.

The official Santa Fe Metropolitan area estimate for 2006, directly from the U.S. Census is: 142,407. Where are you getting 183,506???
http://www.census.gov/population/www/estimates/metro_general/2006/CBSA-EST2006-01.csv (broken link)
142,407 + 816,811 = 959,218
Thats close but no dice.
And you are telling me that I'm wrong? HAHA!
The El Paso Metro area is estimated at 736,310. So where does 650,000 come from? You are bending the truth, seems to be a habit with ABQ defenders for some reason.

I-40 Big Cities (population)
Barstow--Gateway to LA (18,000,000)
Flagstaff (130,000)
ABQ (810,000)
Amarillo (250,000)
OKC (1.3 Million)
Ft. Smith Arkan (275,000)
Little Rock (660,000)
Memphis (1.3 Million)
Nashville (1.5 Million)
Knoxville (200,000)
Ashville NC (80,000)
Hickory NC (350,000)
Winston-Salem (450,000)
Greensboro (1.55 Million)
Raleight-Durham (1.6 Million)
Wilmington (400,000)

Barstow is not a part of Los Angeles, I used to drive through there all the time on my way from Los Angeles (where I lived for 7 years) to Las Vegas, hardly anyone would get the I-40 freeway especially when compared to the traffic that actually used I-10 through Los Angeles. Barstow is 115 miles away from Los Angeles.
Everyone in Los Angeles has to use I-10 at one point or another, it goes right through downtown L.A., hardly anybody has to use I-40 out of Los Angeles, unless they are trying to head out East and get out of Los Angeles.
Since you started using population statistics, well here you go.. compare the two Interstates with the latest 2006 U.S. Census stats:

Barstow - 21,119
Flagstaff - 124,953
ABQ - 816,811
Amarillo - 236,113
OKC - 1,172,339
Ft. Smith Arkan - 288,818
Little Rock - 652,834
Memphis - 1,274,704
Nashville - 1,455,097
Knoxville - 667,384
Ashville NC - 398,009
Greensboro/Winston-Salem/High Point CSA - 1,490,886.
Raleight-Durham - 1,565,223
Wilmington - 326,166
Total: 9,035,359 (with L.A. included just for you: 26,811,359)

Los Angeles, California - 17,776,000
Phoenix, Arizona - 4,039,182
Tucson, Arizona - 946,362
Las Cruces, New Mexico - 193,888
El Paso, Texas - 736,310
San Antonio, Texas - 1,942,217
Houston, Texas - 5,539,949
Beaumont, Texas - 383,443
Lake Charles, Louisiana - 192,316
Lafayette, Louisiana - 254,432
Baton Rouge, Louisiana - 766,514
New Orleans, Louisiana - 1,024,678
Mobile, Alabama - 404,157
Pensacola, Florida - 439,987
Tallahassee, Florida - 336,501
Jacksonville, Florida - 1,277,997
Total: 36,253,933

I-10 is the most used highway system all together in the United States, I-40 doesn't even come close to the traffic that I-10 handles.

Nordstroms, Nieman Marcus, etc. You know, all the stores that most "2 million +" size cities have.

Neither of our cities have these stores, plus El Paso is considered a poor city, so the chances of one of those stores building a store here is pretty slim..same as ABQ.

Why would I be happy, I said all of this in my earlier post, before you started getting defensive.

The fact of the matter is that both cities are nice, neither city is huge (no matter how you would like to twist things), and both are unique compared to the rest of the country.

Dude, the one who got offensive was you when someone simply said that El Paso was larger than ABQ. It always happens here, when someone says El Paso is larger than Albuquerque, the ABQ people come out of the woodworks as if they are offended that someone said such a thing. El Paso technically is larger than ABQ, so they are not wrong when they say so.. but if you include metro's, then yes, ABQ is larger. If we include international metro's then EP is larger... who cares!?!? No one is wrong here, everyone is right with their own opinions. I'm not sure why the ABQ people rush out to defend ABQ whenever this happens.. its funny as hell IMO. This is not the first time this has happened, it won't be the last.

Originally Posted by abqsunport

Actually, Economically you live in our shadow!

Let me ask you a question, when it comes to crime stats, are you glad that you are not associated with Juarez?

In high crime statistics, we also live in your shadow! (Thank God for that !)

I'm very thankful that the violence that usually shows up in Juarez, stays there and doesn't slip over to the El Paso side. These people come and shop in our country and in my city and they leave peacefully back to their homes in the Mexican side. We are very grateful for that.

And actually, Albuquerque's airport gets 6.5 million passengers per year, so clearly observe was using old information. However, the point he made stands the same.

His statement of "having more than half the traffic" is incorrect... and my statement of us having the #6 best airport in North America still stands. Bigger doesn't always equal better.

First, there was an article in the Albuquerque Journal not to long ago that said Blue Dot Corp was considering making Packard Place 35-40 stories due to the large number of condos already sold. So yes, Observe was right again. Nice try to bring him down though.

As of right now it stands at an estimated 30 stories tall, otherwise it is all rumors.

Once again, City size doesn't mean anything, its all metro. El Paso/Juarez is not a combined metro according to the United States government. If they were, your crime stats would be the worst in the country. Your unemployment would be the worst. Your amount of people living below the poverty line would be the worst.

This forum has gotten too negative. I like El Paso, just not as much as Albuquerque. This guy made his choice, the forum has served its duty.

El Paso/Juarez is a international metropolitan area, that has high crime rates and high employment opportunities for its Mexican citizens, and the other side with low crime and high unemployment numbers for the American citizens.

We consider ourselves a 2.5 million international metropolitan area, that is even listed as the #48 largest in the Americas by respected media, academic, health, and economic services.

I know that it bothers some of you ABQ folks when we say that, I'm not sure why?? But sorry, we can't pretend that the folks living next to us do not exist, they do exist and they do live directly right next to us and they add to our traffic congestion, our economy, our pollution, our crime stats in some ways, our future, our everything.. these two cities are tied together at the hip and thats how it will always be.. so most of us El Pasoans accept it and move on with our lives.

One thing that I will say that isn't a part of this discussion.. A lot of Juarez is modernizing itself at a fast rate and parts of Juarez are now really nice which include some nice luxury home areas that have all the modern amenities that we have here as well. I'm really surprised at how fast Juarez is starting to move in the right direction. Juarez was recently named the #1 North American large city (500,000-2,000,000) of the future by fDi magazine, El Paso came in at #2.

The future is bright for El Paso and Albuquerque and I hope nothing but the best for our two cities, and this is the last post that I will be posting about this subject..well for the time being..
I hope everyone had a great and safe Thanksgiving day.

[Chuco]

I don't think this subject should be closed since its about EP vs ABQ, but we should change the subject about which is bigger and which is better.. people in both cities love their cities and we should just accept that people in both cities think that their city is bigger and better than the other and move on.

I will no longer discuss this subject any longer..(for the time being)

I will say one thing, ABQ's zoo is far better than our zoo! It crushes our zoo by a long shot.

[observe]

Originally Posted by Chuco

I don't think this subject should be closed since its about EP vs ABQ, but we should change the subject about which is bigger and which is better.. people in both cities love their cities and we should just accept that people in both cities think that their city is bigger and better than the other and move on.

I will no longer discuss this subject any longer..(for the time being)

I will say one thing, ABQ's zoo is far better than our zoo! It crushes our zoo by a long shot.

OK you win! The JUAREZ metro area which has El Paso as a suburb is bigger!!!
Now you have the highest crime rate in North America!
Looks like your not only living in Albuquerque's shadow but Juarez shadow to boot....you called it not me.

[Chuco]

Originally Posted by observe

OK you win! The JUAREZ metro area which has El Paso as a suburb is bigger!!!
Now you have the highest crime rate in North America!
Looks like your not only living in Albuquerque's shadow but Juarez shadow to boot....you called it not me.

We are not living in anyone's shadow, its not us who are running around looking to start crap on internet message boards because we have a chip on our shoulder.. whenever people say something like "El Paso is bigger than ABQ" like you guys.

Speaking of high crime rates, El Paso has one of the lowest rates in the country.. Juarez is located in a corrupt third world country that is trying to modernize itself and is having a tough battle with drug lords and drug rings... yet Albuquerque has one of the worst crime statistics in the country and has all the benefits of being located in the U.S., now whats ABQ's excuse for having such a terrible crime rate, year in and year out?

[HIGH!Lonesome]

I think certain folks up in the nice city of Albuquerque cant bare the fact that El Paso has them beat (population wise), but heres what, you cant corral 736,000 and say everything within this circle is the El Paso metropolitian area when you have another 1 1/2 million people living right next to it, it's funny if we include Juarez we cant be the 2nd safest city in the country, are we talking about cities or metro areas with high crime rates?

WHY? BECAUSE ALBUQUERQUE SAYS SO, statistics are set to be what they are and they are a true reality of facts, Albuquerque has the largest metro area between the two (for now) if we are only pertaining to within the United States borders, but now we do all the math and we include everyone thats actually there because we will have to be for real and include Ciudad Juarez because we live in the North American Continent, and geographicly El Paso or Juarez/El Paso is one huge metropolis, maybe we could call it the Paso del Norte metropolitain area since both cities use to share the same name.

[holmes]

Originally Posted by observe

...
Albuquerque's downtown is in the middle of a residential boom.....LOFTS
several are now under construction including the 10 floor Anasazi and soon Packard place which will be anywhere from 35 to 45 floors high end residential towers. Those are just the high rises you have several other projects currently in the construction phase.
...

That's nice that this building is going up. Sounds like Albq is further along the whole downtown thing than el paso is. Although our downtown is finally starting to get some much deserved love. But bigger doesn't mean better. Albq will never have the abundance of turn of the last century architecture that el paso has.

[Muhnay]

Originally Posted by abqsunport

Actually, Economically you live in our shadow!

That is very true.. So why are you all so green with envy of El Paso?

Hey you have the Rio Grande.. by the time it gets to us though your many dams, we have a stream. You have a military base there too, a very nice one if I remember correctly.. and you have some very nice casinos..

Speaking of them.. don't those Indians, own all the land around your fair city? Yeah and don't they hold your city council for ransom, for what ever they choose to do? I mean make them angry and they can shut every highway into your city and starve your city into nothingness.. humm I wonder.

[abqsunport]

Originally Posted by Muhnay

That
Hey you have the Rio Grande.. by the time it gets to us though your many dams, we have a stream. You have a military base there too, a very nice one if I remember correctly.. and you have some very nice casinos..

Speaking of them.. don't those Indians, own all the land around your fair city? Yeah and don't they hold your city council for ransom, for what ever they choose to do? I mean make them angry and they can shut every highway into your city and starve your city into nothingness.. humm I wonder.

1st, the Rio Grande isn't much more than a large stream up here either. ;-) 2nd, no, the Soverign Indian Nations still have to follow federal laws, and under that jurisdiction is Interstates. So no, they can't starve our city into nothingness.

Originally Posted by Chuco

The official Santa Fe Metropolitan area estimate for 2006, directly from the U.S. Census is: 142,407. Where are you getting 183,506???
http://www.census.gov/population/www/estimates/metro_general/2006/CBSA-EST2006-01.csv (broken link)
142,407 + 816,811 = 959,218
Thats close but no dice.
And you are telling me that I'm wrong? HAHA!

Yes you are wrong, because the Santa Fe-Espanola CSA (Santa Fe and Espanola are 15 minutes apart) is 183,506
SOOOOOO 183,506+816,811 = 1000317

Barstow is not a part of Los Angeles, I used to drive through there all the time on my way from Los Angeles (where I lived for 7 years) to Las Vegas, hardly anyone would get the I-40 freeway especially when compared to the traffic that actually used I-10 through Los Angeles. Barstow is 115 miles away from Los Angeles.
Everyone in Los Angeles has to use I-10 at one point or another, it goes right through downtown L.A., hardly anybody has to use I-40 out of Los Angeles, unless they are trying to head out East and get out of Los Angeles.

Yes, when people want to go anywhere north of Florida, guess which freeway they use?????

Neither of our cities have these stores, plus El Paso is considered a poor city, so the chances of one of those stores building a store here is pretty slim..same as ABQ.

I never said that Albuquerque did, but almost every city with more than 2,000,000 people in their metro in the United States has them.

Dude, the one who got offensive was you when someone simply said that El Paso was larger than ABQ. It always happens here, when someone says El Paso is larger than Albuquerque, the ABQ people come out of the woodworks as if they are offended that someone said such a thing. El Paso technically is larger than ABQ, so they are not wrong when they say so.. but if you include metro's, then yes, ABQ is larger. If we include international metro's then EP is larger... who cares!?!? No one is wrong here, everyone is right with their own opinions. I'm not sure why the ABQ people rush out to defend ABQ whenever this happens.. its funny as hell IMO. This is not the first time this has happened, it won't be the last.

This is an ELP vs. ABQ forum. Naturally people are going to get defensive. The El Paso crowd has rushed out to defend there city just as much...don't fool yourself.

His statement of "having more than half the traffic" is incorrect... and my statement of us having the #6 best airport in North America still stands. Bigger doesn't always equal better.

It does if you don't want to connect everytime you fly.

As of right now it stands at an estimated 30 stories tall, otherwise it is all rumors.

Right now, nothing stands. It is all speculation, and that is what it will continue to be until the thing is built.

The future is bright for El Paso and Albuquerque and I hope nothing but the best for our two citiesI hope everyone had a great and safe Thanksgiving day.

I agree...and I also hope you and everyone else had a very enjoyable Thanksgiving.

Originally Posted by Chuco

We are not living in anyone's shadow, its not us who are running around looking to start crap on internet message boards because we have a chip on our shoulder.. whenever people say something like "El Paso is bigger than ABQ" like you guys.

Speaking of high crime rates, El Paso has one of the lowest rates in the country.. Juarez is located in a corrupt third world country that is trying to modernize itself and is having a tough battle with drug lords and drug rings... yet Albuquerque has one of the worst crime statistics in the country and has all the benefits of being located in the U.S., now whats ABQ's excuse for having such a terrible crime rate, year in and year out?

We are not "crapping" on your forums. This is an Albuquerque v. El Paso forum. This is bound to happen. Yes El Paso does have a very outstanding crime rate. No one is arguing that. The argument has been made that if you include Juarez in the population, than El Paso is bigger than Albuquerque (which is very true). If you do that, however, El Paso's metro is no longer the second safest but rather the opposite. No one is trying to start crap, but statistics can be fought back and forth forever. This is a battle no one can win--but really who cares? I love Albuquerque and I like El Paso. I am sure most of you think the same thing, just with the cities switched. I want to wish everyone a nice and happy holiday season comming up.

The funny thing is, when I travel to other parts of the country and they talk **** about El Paso, I defend them. I despise when people call it Hell Paso, because it truly is a very interesting nice city.