May be relocating to El Paso, lots of questions... (Houston: high crime, how much)

[southernbliss]

O.k let me try and tell you so far what I think about el paso.

1st. thing the weather is great here, besides the winds that can get bad here! but overall I like the weather here.
2nd. to me it is cheaper here than the south but I live on post so I do not pay taxes, we did buy a new truck when we moved here in it was a little higher here than back home but not much.
3rd. jobs are hard to come by here for some reason(good jobs) I guess there are not enough jobs for everyone but that could be because we are so close to the mexico. your wife may have a hard time finding a job here that pays good, if you make over 60,000 a year you will be ok. the westside is nice but again I do not pay taxes!
as for people being mean to your wife,well I have notice that it is harder for spanish people that only speak english, for some reason people around here feel that if you are mexican that you should know how to speak spanish!! which is so far from the truth!! I know lots of spanish people that only speak english,there is nothing wrong with that!! but at the same time I will turn it around and tell you that some english speaking people act like know one is to speak anything but english!!! so it goes both ways around here you need to be open minded to live in a place like el paso. people have been very nice to me around here.

now as for the school well that is my only *****, I hate the schools here, if you have the money send them to private school, the public schools are way behind around here and there seems to be a lot of gangs in the highschools I am from the south so I do not do gangs of any kind so the whole gang thing just pisses me off.

As for you kids playing well kids play here to!! I feel my kids are safe here but again I live on post.
you just need to learn to lock you doors that was hard for me because I came from a place that not only could you keep your doors unlock, you could leave them open!! nobody was going to take anything!! so little things will change for you like that. It is safe here! I am from mayberry to, I can tell you this is not mayberry but at the same time it is not bad!!!
the traffic takes time I am not use to so much traffic.
I have not been to mexico yet!! so I can not tell you anything about that.

now all that being said.... I will be here for 3 years then I move on, would I move here for good well no I like water and trees so this is not somewhere I would want to be for good, but that does not mean el paso is bad.

[laplander]

I always thought i would retire in ElPaso, and have reached that retirement age. I was
stationed there (Air Force) many yrs. ago, as many of you know from former posts, but
i sometimes wonder if i actually have enough to retire on there. I wonder if times have changed in ElPaso much more then i realize. I rememember, the Mexican Americans living in ElPaso would complain about the people from Juaraz coming across the border, working for very little, and then go back across at night, spend their money there, taking the jobs that kids just out of H.S. could get, and keeping the pay scale low.
Has the cost of living in ElPaso gone up that much? This may be something you can't answer, but will ask anyway, how much of a wage is needed to live comfortably there?
That would also involve owning a home.

[nixau27]

The only good thing really in El Paso is the weather. We've been here for 6-7 yrs. (I try not to remember) and trying to get out, trying to sell the house and then we're outta here! It's a good experience though,,,one that I would care not to repeat though! People are really nice,,,most of them transpants though. Those like yourself and I who is not a native El Paso. The only place where i've lived (so far) where the freeway is backed up, on a standstill and you wonder if there's an accident but all it is is some serious rubbernecking! Where you see a car driving backwards, trying to back up since they missed their exit. Where you will see people driving new cars but does not seem to know where the "blinkers" are. Must I go on? Anyway, I live in the Upper Valley and the schools are good. My child is in GT (Gifted & Talented Program) at Lincoln MS. I sent her to Da Vinci (don't send your kids there!) and I pulled her out,,one of the biggest mistakes of my life! Not unless you want your kids to go to a "reform" school. W/c I think Da Vinci is. With what you and your wife will be making, you'll live here comfortably. Don't be fooled by the housing prices, everyone keeps on saying how "cheap" it is here but remember, you'll pay an arm and a leg for property taxes. I have a house worth $150K, and paying almost $4K in property taxes. I don't know where that goes since i'm paying everything for myself anyway. We're in our late 30's , and I have one rugrat that goes to MS and one of the (many?) downside is there's really nothing to do in El Paso. There's an outlet mall but it gets old after awhile. I can't wait to get out of here!!!! When are you guys moving? Maybe you can buy my house. Just kidding (?). Most of the people I've come across are really good people and they are helpful but just like some of my postings, most of them are also "transplants". Your kids won't have a problem here, most of the kids speak English. As for the neighborhoods, just like anywhere else, it depends where you live. I live in a safe community but I still tend to lock my door at all times, lock my cars and all. I don't know abt. private schools but one of my friend's son goes to a Catholic school and she pays close to $500/mo and i think you pay for everything as well. The drive to the bridge won't be a problem, it's probably the waiting time. Good luck!

[Muhnay]

Thank you SouthernBliss. I would rep you but I have to spread the love around some it says. Your post was very informative, for someone new to the area.. I think this will help this family the most.

I don't want anyone to think I don't care for your opinion, I am thanking SouthernBliss because I asked her to chime in, and she did.

[EnjoyEP]

OK folks, now my turn to try to help DaBux.

DaBux, here is my standard El Paso thread disclaimer. I am not currently living in El Paso, nor have I in my life. Yet. I am a male in my early 30s, wife and 2 young kids. Born and raised and married, etc., all in Wisconsin (fellow Midwesterner), about five years ago we moved to Albuquerque, NM (a city that is similar in some respects to El Paso and different in others that is only about 250 miles directly north of El Paso).

In my time in Albuquerque, I made over 20 prolonged stays in El Paso as my wife and I have family in the city. In that time, despite being an Midwesterner and a "gringo", I grew to be very, very fond of El Paso.

In July, I relocated back to Milwaukee (WI) because I thought it would be best for us to live with our young kids near our family that resides up here. However, I was wrong. My wife and I are now trying to get relocated back down to the Southwest, however, this time to El Paso. That is how much I like the city. (Heck, just applied to a position there last evening that, if offered, I would be in El Paso immediately for).

Undoubtedly by now, you've seen some more "negative" views and opinions on components of living in El Paso. Some of these posters are life-long El Pasoans - or close to it - and thus their opinions surely should be respected.

However...

I think we'd all agree here on the forum whatever your view of El Paso that El Paso is a very polarizing city - folks either tend to REALLY like it (myself) or REALLY dislike it (some of our other friends on these forums). Frankly, part of this is a component of living in a desert city...they just seem to be polarizing places (as is the concept of living in the desert); people either usually love it or hate it. Then, throw in being on the border and being in a very unique cultural city to much of the US, and things are especially polarizing.

I am guessing you and your wife would in short time either really learn to absolutely love El Paso, or you'd end up wanting to move on...there just doesn't seem to be a tremendous amount of middle ground, although there is some of that as well.

OK, now that I have said my disclaimer (which is far, far too long; I have got to shorten this thing! )...here are my thoughts on your questions:

Originally Posted by DaBux

...the size of the city and cultural differences are about as far apart as you can get.

You bet. My first question for you: Would you/your wife/family enjoy living in a bigger city? Have you ever done so happily before? This would be the first key.

For folks from Denver, Phoenix, Chicago, or Dallas, El Paso seems like a fairly small town. But for folks from small towns (say less than 100,000 people), El Paso seems like a big city. From an Ohio standpoint - size wise only - would you guys be comfortable living in a Cincinnati or a Columbus! (These cities are bigger than El Paso, but you get my point).

Now, as for the racial demographics. Yes, El Paso is heavily Hispanic or Mexican. I am always surprised by how many white or black folks I end up running into in El Paso, since the populace is 75% Hispanic or Mexican. Remember, you are literally a couple of miles from Mexico and a huge Mexican city, so obviously El Paso - while still thoroughly an American city - has an enormous Mexican-American presence culturally, socially, and demographically.

I don't speak Spanish. My wife kind of does and my family members there do, but I don't. I have never once needed Spanish to function in El Paso, however, you'll certainly hear it spoken a whole heckuva lot. If you are comfortable with that - and realizing the Mexican-American culture really defines the vibe of the city - you'll be better off to start. If that bothers you, then that'll be a big problem obviously.

Originally Posted by DaBux

Have any of you made the move to El Paso from such a different background?

I haven't made the move...yet. But if I obtain a job there and do make the move, I'd be joining your boat. I am as gringo as gringo can get and would be coming from the Midwest as well. Milwaukee is very dissimilar to El Paso, although Albuquerque has many more similarities (but still many differences).

One thing though is that the church I attend while I am in El Paso has many, many gringos and black folks from the Midwest (transplants) and they enjoy the city very well, so it certainly wouldn't be like you'd be the only person.

Originally Posted by DaBux

What could I expect my house payment to be on a average house there with taxes?

-On the West Side of El Paso (the overall more costly housing side), the nice houses I have seen range anywhere from $150,000 to $400K+. You'd need to more define what you are looking for in terms of square footage, age, # of bedrooms, etc. For a decent 3BR, 2BA house at about 1700 square feet on El Paso's West Side, you could find one in the range of $165K to $225K. But obviously you could spend a whole lot more depending upon what you want.

-Texas property taxes are indeed on the high side, however, this is very quite well offset by Texas having no income taxes...a perk that most states do not enjoy.

I understand alot of Texans complaining about the high property taxes, but boy, compared to the property taxes in Wisconsin, Texas' aren't even THAT high. Here though, not only do we have very high property taxes, but also high income tax. Having no income tax in Texas is a really nice thing.

---Also, remember, those same houses in the West Side, you could buy in nice East Side or Horizon City (a nice suburb on the far east side) for more in the range of $120K to $175K. For $175K on the East Side, you can buy a brand new home with 4 BRs, 2.5 BA, over 2000 square feet. That is a great house for that price if you are making more than $40K.

Originally Posted by DaBux

How would my income compare to most on the west end?

There are, of course, wealthy and upper-middle class folks in El Paso for sure, like any big city. The West Side and Upper Valley are indeed where you'll find many of them. But there aren't tons of folks in El Paso making $70K or $80K, so you'll compare quite favorably in terms of what you'll be able to afford in comparison to many of your neighbors, even on the West Side.

Originally Posted by DaBux

I expect my wifes income to remain in the the low to mid 30's if she can find work in her field. So that would put us around $110,000.

--Please see my initial response to you. A household income of $100K+ is pretty darn good if you ask me anywhere in the US, but in El Paso, you can live incredibly well for that wage. There aren't ions of $100K+ households in El Paso.

Originally Posted by DaBux

My wife is in the medical field and the doctors she works with now both have contacts in El Paso and say they should be able to get her a job, how hard would that be with her not speaking Spanish?

Well, if you have contacts in El Paso - through doctors no less - and they state they should be able to get her a job, (and I am assuming they know / realize she doesn't speak Spanish), why be too worried? I would just press them to see if they could come up with an interview / interviews.

Spanish speaking is indeed a big deal for many jobs in El Paso as you expect, but it really depends upon the field you work in. Even stating she is in the "medical field"...Spanish would probably be HUGE for some jobs in the medical field (ER Nurses, for example), but wouldn't be probably a big deal for other jobs.

I would just press those contacts to see if they couldn't get a job interview(s) lined up. Then, if I were your wife (I am having to do this myself), just be honest and state that you aren't bilingual and determine if that would be a big deal.

Personally, I - if I do get a job in EP without being bilingual - plan to start to attempt to learn shortly after getting settled. It certainly would help living in a border city like EP, but for some jobs it isn't a big deal at all...some jobs it is huge...the job descriptions usually indicate if it is needed or not...but ultimately, it would be a nice skill to have.

Originally Posted by DaBux

Would my wife be looked down on for being Spanish and not speaking the language?

My wife is half-Mexican (but looks Mexican) and really only understands Spanish...can't speak it too well. She's never really felt weird in EP due to it. Most people we've encountered in EP are quite easygoing and even if they looked down on her about not being a Spanish guru, they would be too timid about it to mock her to her face for it.

I wouldn't worry too much about it. Hell, aren't we all looked down upon for one reason or another for something? If some people are ignorant enough to look down on her for it, that is their problem.

Originally Posted by DaBux

We have 2 children 8 and 11, they can pass for either descent, would they have trouble in school/making friends not being able to speak Spanish?

Probably just really depends upon the school and the caliber of kids that go there. One thing that is nice though as as young as they are, they probably would pick up quite a bit of Spanish fairly quickly. Kids learn languages - especially through immersion - much quicker than us old foggies do.

A friend in his early 40s who lives in El Paso (and has for years) and is about the whitest guy you could know has two very white kids that go to public school and they really enjoy the school and their friends, most of whom are Mexican/Hispanic. I am sure occasionally they've been the target of racial stuff (just like those Mexican/Hispanic kids are in the whiter areas of Wisconsin, etc.), but overall I don't think its been a big deal for them. However, it just depends upon the school and the kids I am sure. Kids are people too, and some people are just very ignorant and mean.

Originally Posted by DaBux

How are the schools in El Paso?

Some are decent from what I have learned, but many are terrible. I don't know if this is all that uncommon. Unfortunately, there aren't many big cities in the US anymore where public school systems in generally are well thought of. They surely aren't in Milwaukee and they surely aren't in Albuquerque. But there are exceptions, and the same is true in El Paso.

Originally Posted by DaBux

Both kids are A students and their education is very important to us.
How are the private schools and does anyone know the costs?

My kids to me too. My kids would be going to a private, Christian school in El Paso of the church body we belong to. There we'd feel very comfortable with their education. I think private schools would be the way to go, although money for that can be a big issue to many people depending upon the schools. However, if you are making $80-$110K, I don't think private school costs should be a huge turn-off for you.

Originally Posted by DaBux

I have read about the low crime rate but notice a lot of the pictures of homes with bars on windows and doors?

This is the one question that I always answer and then inspire alot of rage against me with.

STATISTICALLY SPEAKING, El Paso has one of the lowest, safest crime rates - especially for violent crimes - in comparison to other big (500,000+ population) cities in the US. It consistently ranks among the top 3 "safest" big cities - statistically - year in and year out.

However, there are some areas where crime rates are higher in comparison - auto thefts are a big one.

Look, crime will be more of an issue for you in El Paso to be aware of in comparison to a town of 8,000 people - no doubt. All big cities have elements of crime you need to be at least a little bit aware of. However, compared to many other big cities with much higher crime rates - Denver, Phoenix, Chicago, Tucson, Albuquerque - crime rates are much better in El Paso.

As for the bars on the windows, sure, they are called "burglar bars", however, they are just kind of a common, anti-crime item used in many Southwestern cities - you'd see them commonly in Albuquerque, Phoenix and Tucson too.

There are parts of Albuquerque (most of it), that you could be in and feel very safe - day, night, and 365. There are other parts (not as many but they are there) where you wouldn't feel comfortable crime-wise at any time. This is true of all big cities. El Paso is the same. The West Side is considered one of the nicer, safer parts, and in this portion, I think you'd feel as safe as you would in a nice part of any major city.

Originally Posted by DaBux

Is it safe for children to be out in the neighborhood and play? It is like Mayberry here, while we keep a good eye on them there isn't much concern for anything happening and can freely ride their bikes around and walk down to a friends house.

See my last answer. El Paso's just too big and spread out to generalize. In many parts of El Paso (many parts of the West Side, East side, Horizon City [suburb], Upper Valley, etc.), you'll feel very safe for your kids around your yard, in the parks, etc. In other parts you'd feel very unsafe.

I guess I never quite get these questions. Maybe it was from growing up in Milwaukee - metro city population of 1.7 million people - and spending much time in Chicago - a metro city population of 10+ million. I guess I am just used to how life is in big cities. Yeah, would you want your kids running miles away from the house? Probably not. But I don't know if you'd really want that even in the small "Mayberry" towns anymore. If you live in a nice, safe area/neighborhood (like I know you would), use some basic common sense and teach it to your kids, you'll be fine in big cities - El Paso included.

Originally Posted by DaBux

How safe is the commute to Jaurez? I guess it is a 30 minute drive once over the bridge.

This is for others to speak to. I have walked into Juarez over 10 times, but only by foot, and only during the day, and only on the main tourist areas.

I personally wouldn't be thrilled at the idea at driving in Juarez, much less daily, but then again I may just be a wimp. I would talk heartily to the company's HR folks...they typically would have good suggestions/ideas for Americans work-wise.

It is funny. A second cousin of mine in his 50s...the most mild-mannered upper-Wisconsin guy you could imagine (he has lived is whole life in Wausau, WI, a town in northern Wisconsin), works 2 out of every 4 weeks in Juarez. He flies into El Paso, stays in El Paso, and drives into and out of Juarez every day for two full weeks. Then he flies back and works in upper Wisconsin for two weeks. Such night-and-day different places. He actually really likes it. I don't know if he loves the drive or what not, but has never really been bothered by it, and really enjoys working in Juarez. I guess this would just depend upon the individual. Wouldn't be for me, but if the job is worth it, maybe you wouldn't hate it.

Let us know how it goes! I think your idea to come to EP next month to check it out is a great idea.

Best of luck to you!!

[El Passeaux]

are those bars on houses also a Mexican ornimental style thing rather than a jail?

[malamute]

Originally Posted by El Passeaux

are those bars on houses also a Mexican ornimental style thing rather than a jail?

I think in Mexico they put bars up on their windows and doors for the same reason people here do. And the barbed wire and broken glass on top of high walls isn't decorative -- no way could that be considered ornamental. I've been seeing more of that -- the barbed wire spiraled on top of high fences.

If someone is used to big back yards and few fences and a more open way of living, they might not like the closed in fortress way of living in town here. What's funny though -- you actually get used to it so when you travel back you find it shocking that people are so careless about open windows and leaving car windows down when they go inside a store and it seems strange to see windows and doors without the bars.

Violent crime is not real high here -- when you compare "metropolitan areas" which include the suburbs like what are included here because the city limits here go so far out, we're about average -- slightly better than average for violent crime but it's also the type of crime that influences our sense of danger -- here it's mostly domestic violence and gang fights --- rarely stranger on stranger crime. Property crime is high here though. And the Sur and MS13 graffitti you see around lately might signify things will soon worsen.

[malamute]

Not everyone likes the weather here -- which to me is odd because the weather I think is nearly perfect --- but it's not very green and there aren't lakes.

As far as kids not having anything to do -- I think they have plenty to do here -- or what is it they want to do that they can do elsewhere but not here? I can see if canoeing or fishing, snowmobiling and all that is what they want to do -- then there isn't much available here -- but if it's hiking, bike-riding, camping, going to a mall or movie --- there's plenty to do.

And don't forget our river-walk. You can drive down to the river and find very nice paths to walk or ride along -- you'll see quite a few people bike-riding, walking a dog, out riding horses. And there are the hiking trails in the Franklin Mountains -- really nice ones. Plenty of day trips also to pretty remarkable places -- White Sands, Carlsbad Caverns, Aguirre Springs Park, Cloudcroft, the Gila Wilderness, the Cliff Dwellings, a couple small lakes -- Lake Roberts, Lake Bonita. And you can drive up in the morning and go skiing for hours and return home the same day.

To me we have pretty good things to do and see here --- and it's fantastic how in a 2 hour drive the scenary can be so varied.

[Muhnay]

Mal some good points... but I disagree. I see Violent crime also as someone who gets in a car drunk, and kills some family. We have lots of that here.

The bars are not a decoration.. they are a protective security matter. No one goes wow my house looks like a prison, how pretty. Yes they try to dress them up, but bars is bars. People put fences up to also add yet another barrier between them and the criminals.

[mando111]

Wrought iron around windows and doors has always been a "style" in El Paso, sometimes considered a plus. We must not forget that at one point in the past, violent crime was a serious problem in our city. That is why wrought iron bars are so popular. But crime has decreased in a relatively significant manner, so you'll find newer homes sans wrought iron. Compared to many parts of the U.S., El Paso is significantly safer, and this is not a myth.

Your best bet is to explore the city. Drive north and south, east and west, and you'll get the best feel in whichever part of the city. Be prepared to adjust. But be open to bilingual encounters. You will learn that people here are more than willing to help.