May be relocating to El Paso, lots of questions... (Fort Bliss: houses, job market)

[DaBux]

Thank you all for your responses. Answersa\ to some questions and comments.

Muhnay -

You expect a raise.. yeah you have never been to El Paso, most people who come here get paid less than what they currently make. I hope you have that offer in writing.

Yes the [SIZE=2]responsibilities [/SIZE]are much higher and they need my experience at the plant there, more money will definately be in the offering, I just do not know how much yet.

West end of the country? can you better explain?

I meant west side area of El Paso.

30.. HAHAHA.. oh man your in for a surprise. try an hour at the least to 2 maybe even 3. Not safe at all.. maybe you have not heard about the recent killings and deaths in Juarez? Drug Cartels are at war.

I would imagine that there are quite a few from El Paso that make this commute, have there been any documented crimes against americans who work in Juarez?

I suggest you really rethink the move here.. I don't think it would be the best move for your kids or wife. Reassess your reasons for making this move.. are you doing this for more money, to better your family, to be near your old pal in the marines, or what? I don't know all your facts, but from what I have seen here.. it would be a big mistake.

The biggest reason for the move would be job experience, right know I am a floor supervisor and there I would be in charge of all the floor supervisors, this would be valuable experience for my resume also the increase in pay which if it is not [SIZE=2]substantial [/SIZE]I will not take the position. I actually feel a little stupid because I thought El Paso would be like other cities I have been to in Texas. After reading Muhnay's post I was like there is no way but some of the other posts make it seem not as bad.

Is the gang activity new to the area or just getting worse? someone mentioned MS13, this is pretty much acknowledged as the worst gang in the world. Is MS13 just starting to get a foothold into El Paso?

I was in the Marines for 8 years and had to adjust to many different areas and do not think it will be that hard on me, my wife I believe will be OK also. The kids in the other hand is the biggest concern and will be the hardest on. I will be making the trip soon and then take my wife out to check it out then wait on the offer. If I had to make my decision now it would have to be one heck of an offer before I would take it. I'll keep you updated after my trip which has been pushed back to the end of March. In the meantime keep posting I really enjoyed everyone's input.

Thank you all so much.

[peggydavis]

Please do post about your experiences in El Paso, DaBux, and thank you for your response.

[malamute]

Originally Posted by DaBux

Thank you all for your responses. Answersa\ to some questions and comments.

Muhnay -

You expect a raise.. yeah you have never been to El Paso, most people who come here get paid less than what they currently make. I hope you have that offer in writing.

Yes the [SIZE=2]responsibilities [/SIZE]are much higher and they need my experience at the plant there, more money will definately be in the offering, I just do not know how much yet.

West end of the country? can you better explain?

I meant west side area of El Paso.

30.. HAHAHA.. oh man your in for a surprise. try an hour at the least to 2 maybe even 3. Not safe at all.. maybe you have not heard about the recent killings and deaths in Juarez? Drug Cartels are at war.

I would imagine that there are quite a few from El Paso that make this commute, have there been any documented crimes against americans who work in Juarez?

I suggest you really rethink the move here.. I don't think it would be the best move for your kids or wife. Reassess your reasons for making this move.. are you doing this for more money, to better your family, to be near your old pal in the marines, or what? I don't know all your facts, but from what I have seen here.. it would be a big mistake.

The biggest reason for the move would be job experience, right know I am a floor supervisor and there I would be in charge of all the floor supervisors, this would be valuable experience for my resume also the increase in pay which if it is not [SIZE=2]substantial [/SIZE]I will not take the position. I actually feel a little stupid because I thought El Paso would be like other cities I have been to in Texas. After reading Muhnay's post I was like there is no way but some of the other posts make it seem not as bad.

Is the gang activity new to the area or just getting worse? someone mentioned MS13, this is pretty much acknowledged as the worst gang in the world. Is MS13 just starting to get a foothold into El Paso?

I was in the Marines for 8 years and had to adjust to many different areas and do not think it will be that hard on me, my wife I believe will be OK also. The kids in the other hand is the biggest concern and will be the hardest on. I will be making the trip soon and then take my wife out to check it out then wait on the offer. If I had to make my decision now it would have to be one heck of an offer before I would take it. I'll keep you updated after my trip which has been pushed back to the end of March. In the meantime keep posting I really enjoyed everyone's input.

Thank you all so much.

I don't think there are many attack on Americans commuting to the maquilas. I haven't heard of any.

El Paso is not like other cities in Texas. Even the people -- very few people from other parts of Texas -- most are from Mexico but the others are from all over the USA but almost none from Texas. The rest of Texas doesn't say nice things about El Paso -- they call us the armpit of Texas but in many ways it's nice here than other parts of Texas.

I wouldn't live in Dallas or Fort Worth -- those are not my kinds of towns, I can't see myself living in Houston where the traffic is worse. Austin and San Antonio might be okay, Lubbock, Midland, Odessa don't have our mountain and just stuck out in the middle of all that flatness even if they might be okay places otherwise.

Gang activity in El Paso is nothing new -- it was worse in the 70s and early 80s -- quite a bit worse. It's been contained but there are a lot of gangs. The graffitti shows that there are some MS13 types here. I read a while back though that because of such a strong gang presence in El Paso that those groups may have difficulty getting established -- that is -- the other gangs will run them out, make it uncomfortable. There is a difference between the gangs of northern Mexico and of southern Mexico and Central America -- but seeing graffitti of "surenos" and "MS13" makes me think things could worsen.

A lot of kids in gangs here are mostly wannabees. They dress and act like gangs -- but there are different reasons for that because they aren't real criminals. And gang kids tend to leave white kids alone. And they'll leave studious kids alone -- they mostly bother each other.

It depends on the age of your kids -- younger kids adapt more easily -- older kids are the ones who end up hating it here -- but that's because it's not like where they're from and they don't find the same social groups or acceptance -- depending on the part of town and high school. If you're already looking at the West Side -- that's not going to be much of an issue. If your kids get As now, they'll go right to the top of their classes here and be in the motivated peer group and if they're in high school, they'll hear all their peers talking about where they're going off to college -- and figure they'll be out of here themselves soon enough.

And I think there is enough to do -- weekend trips, day trips -- all kinds of outdoor activities as long as they don't require much water and the weather will almost never interfere with what you want to do outdoors.

If it were me moving in with older kids used to a rural environment, I'd at least get them involved in some of that here -- it still exists -- lots of equestrian activities for example. And the forests to the north and northwest are amazing.

[HIGH!Lonesome]

Dabux, if you are going to move to El Paso or thinking of moving there, Just Do It, asking questions is good but you will get all sorts of responds goods ones and negative ones, dont be discouraged and dont fear the Mexican/Americans and the Mexicans.

[Muhnay]

malamute have you lived any other place besides El Paso? I ask because you say there are these things to do.. and my experience has been there is nothing to do here. Ask most kids. If El Paso is such a great place why have you and other posted about how kids are leaving here as soon as they can when they come of age to do so. Why do so many people who come here ( military ) post about how they cant wait to get away?

Don't just take my word for things, look up stuff on-line, I have even posted stats on wages and so forth to prove I am not just trying to scare this guy and his family away.

I will give him 2 bonuses to moving here, He would have a job already so he leaps that hurdle here, His wife has contacts to get a job here. They will have a higher income than most here, so they will be able to afford Private schools, so now they just have to figure out if the rest is worth it or not.

As you know I did not mention MS13, Malamute did. Yes we have some major gangs, and some minor punks who want to be a gang.. I fear the punks more because they are not organized and are trying to make a name for themselves. the biggest problem we have now are the 3 Cartels at war over drug routes. Even on the news the other night they said it was exploding into El Paso and not just contained in Juarez. We had a hospital here on major lock down because one of the Mexico agents had an assassination attempt on his life and he was being treated here. Federalizes, and Mexican Police have been beefed up in Juarez because of all the killing going on.

Dabux, I think if this will be a reason to beef up your resume, and your confident it will be better for you and your family down the road, I would do it. El Paso is not all bad. I suggest you come down for a couple days and check it out.. then go back and make your choice by your own experience. I commend you on getting some insight on something before just jumping in. Good Luck man! And yes as Peggy stated, let us know.

[Muhnay]

I found some more data for you.. It may help you out.

Mexico

ENTRY REQUIREMENTS: For the latest entry requirements, contact the Embassy of Mexico web site at Embassy of Mexico in Washington or contact the Embassy of Mexico at 1911 Pennsylvania Avenue NW, Washington, DC 20006, telephone (202) 736-1000 or any Mexican consulate in the United States for the most current information.

Land or sea travelers must have a valid U.S. passport (or U.S. citizenship documents such as a certified copy (not a simple photocopy or facsimile) of a U.S. birth certificate, a Naturalization Certificate, a Consular Report of Birth Abroad, or a Certificate of Citizenship are acceptable along with photo identification, such as a state or military issued ID).

Business Travel: Upon arrival in Mexico, business travelers must complete and submit a form (Form FM-N) authorizing the conduct of business, but not employment, for a 30-day period. Travelers entering Mexico for purposes other than tourism or business or for stays of longer than 180 days require a visa and must carry a valid U.S. passport. U.S. citizens planning to work or live in Mexico should apply for the appropriate Mexican visa at the Mexican Embassy in Washington, D.C., or nearest Mexican consulate in the United States.

CRIME: Crime in Mexico continues at high levels, and it is often violent, especially in Mexico City, Tijuana, Ciudad Juarez, Nuevo Laredo, Monterrey, Acapulco, and the state of Sinaloa. Other metropolitan areas have lower, but still serious, levels of crime. Low apprehension and conviction rates of criminals contribute to the high crime rate. U.S. citizen victims of crime in Mexico are encouraged to report the incident to the nearest police headquarters and to the nearest U.S. consular office.

Kidnapping, including the kidnapping of non-Mexicans, continues at alarming rates. So-called express kidnappings, an attempt to get quick cash in exchange for the release of an individual, have occurred in almost all the large cities in Mexico and appear to target not only the wealthy, but also the middle class. U.S. businesses with offices in Mexico or concerned U.S. citizens may contact the U.S. Embassy or any U.S. consulate to discuss precautions they should take.

CONSULATES:
Ciudad Juarez: Avenida Lopez Mateos 924-N; telephone (52)(656) 611-3000.

[peggydavis]

Isn't is normal for kids to say they can't wait to leave their home when they come of age? Unless they live in one of the "coolest places," that are very few in number, most young people want to leave home and try their wings. I think the vast majority of cities and towns across the US have kids saying that "there is nothing to do here."

[malamute]

Originally Posted by Muhnay

malamute have you lived any other place besides El Paso? I ask because you say there are these things to do.. and my experience has been there is nothing to do here. Ask most kids. If El Paso is such a great place why have you and other posted about how kids are leaving here as soon as they can when they come of age to do so. Why do so many people who come here ( military ) post about how they cant wait to get away?

Yes I have -- I'm originally from the Midwest and that's why because of the weather here, I never understand "kids having nothing to do" because whatever you want to do here as long as it doesn't include large bodies of water, you can do it year round. Try being a kid in the Midwest when going outdoors means putting on several layers of clothes, boots, scarves, hats, gloves. What is that kids want to do here that they cannot do?

Don't just take my word for things, look up stuff on-line, I have even posted stats on wages and so forth to prove I am not just trying to scare this guy and his family away.

I will give him 2 bonuses to moving here, He would have a job already so he leaps that hurdle here, His wife has contacts to get a job here. They will have a higher income than most here, so they will be able to afford Private schools, so now they just have to figure out if the rest is worth it or not.

For some people jobs here aren't that much of a problem -- but it depends on the line of work. Some people can get by speaking English -- but obviously many places will toss an application right into the waste basket if you aren't a fluent native speaker of Mexican Spanish. Pay is lower here, taxes are outrageously high here -- there is no denying that -- and we get very little in return for the very high taxes we pay. Many roads are full of potholes, the city looks quite shabby in many parts. No denying that.

As you know I did not mention MS13, Malamute did. Yes we have some major gangs, and some minor punks who want to be a gang.. I fear the punks more because they are not organized and are trying to make a name for themselves. the biggest problem we have now are the 3 Cartels at war over drug routes. Even on the news the other night they said it was exploding into El Paso and not just contained in Juarez. We had a hospital here on major lock down because one of the Mexico agents had an assassination attempt on his life and he was being treated here. Federalizes, and Mexican Police have been beefed up in Juarez because of all the killing going on.

Gangs are a problem --- not so much for adults but kids in high schools here will encounter the gang type kids --- more in some schools than others. I don't think anyone can deny there is a problem and that problem could get quite a bit worse. There are kids in the high schools here who will be headed to prison for a serious crime soon after they drop out. Parents need to be aware of that. School fights here are not fist fights like some people are familiar with -- they end up gang fights with 12 guys beating and kicking one defenseless kid. Like what happened at Del Valle recently where the kid was found murdered right in the school. Many kids avoid these problems -- but if you have a kid that could get himself involved somehow -- even just mouthing off to the kids in the gangs -- it can end up deadly. I know a lot of kids who have been stabbed at parties --- those don't make the news because they don't result in death.

Dabux, I think if this will be a reason to beef up your resume, and your confident it will be better for you and your family down the road, I would do it. El Paso is not all bad. I suggest you come down for a couple days and check it out.. then go back and make your choice by your own experience. I commend you on getting some insight on something before just jumping in. Good Luck man! And yes as Peggy stated, let us know.

Not everyone ends up liking El Paso, it can be hard to predict who will like it -- there are some people of all types here who like it and prefer to stay. Many kids born here will end up leaving. Not because of the food or weather -- not always the wages. Many Spanish speaking kids who learn English will be included in the ones who leave -- and for them it's not the lack of jobs since they are the ones who get the jobs here.

As for myself -- I'd rather live here than Houston or Dallas, or anywhere in Florida, or some cold or hot place -- although taxes could drive me out. I don't like the graffitti everywhere, I don't like the high property crime here, but I like that there aren't many stranger-on-stranger killings. It depends on what's most important to someone I guess.

[EnjoyEP]

Hi DuBux -

I think your plan is a good one. Check out the place, bring your wife down too, and spend some real time in EP looking around, getting a feel for the town, etc.

We all have our opinions on the city - some of us love it and some of us don't really love it - but the bottom line is that it really depends upon if you guys will like that area. There are many pros and some cons, but it just depends upon what is important to you guys and what 'fits' for you.

I think that the weather is some of the best - if not the best - in that nation. Sun shines most everyday (city's nickname is the "Sun City")...winters are very mild with 50s-70s for highs, but sprinkled in will be some 40s with an average of about 5 inches of snowfall annually so you can at least remember what winter is. Overnight lows in winter are the 20s through low 40s, so you definitely can feel still some cold.

Springs and falls are nearly perfect weather with temps in the high 60s through low 90s...very low humidities, very strong sun. The only "drawback" is some very windy periods during the spring (the "Gusty N' Dusty" season), however, I think compared to the spring weather other places in the US (strong thuderstorms, tornadoes, late-season blizzards, freezing cold wet winds, etc.), a few dust storms aren't terribly bad in comparison (just park your car inside your garage those days! ).

Not only are springs and falls very warm and mild, but nights cool off quite well (like the summer)...so lows range from the 40s to the 60s. So even on the warm spring / fall days, you'll get a cool, crisp, dry, star-filled cloudless night sky.

Summers are indeed quite hot, but not Phoenix / Las Vegas / Tucson hot. Highs range from the low 90s to the mid-100s, but 104, 105, etc., is USUALLY the hottest you'll hit. It is very, very rare in El Paso for the temp to go above 109 degrees F. All of this time, humidities are very low, so while it will be hot, at least it won't be the "sweaty, humidifier" hot. Don't get me wrong...throw in that vicious strong West Texas sun, things are going to be quite toasty. But heck, you are from Ohio with huge humidities, I strongly feel 104 in El Paso with its low humidity, while feeling hotter than 89 in Ohio, also feels more pleasant, if that makes any sense.

Also, in the summer, once the sun sets in El Paso, the temps start to plummet nearly immediately, and if a day is 103 for a high in El Paso, the nighttime low often will be 70 or 75, which is so darn refreshing. It also makes for a warm-yet-refreshing morning.

Remember, the sun shines an average of 310+ days per year in EP, so there is no concept of "SAD" in EP. The city averages only 8-9 inches of rainfall annually, so outdoor activities are rarely cancelled due to rain (and of that 8-9 inches, 5-6 fall during the summer "monsoon" season which is mid-July to mid-September which, helpfully, can cool off summer temps nicely). Snow is, as mentioned, ~5 inches per year...enough to see measurable snow once or twice a year, but it readily melts off and is almost never a factor in life other than the ability to once and awhile witness some snow.

El Paso's Franklin Mountains surround the city through its' middle (separating East from West sides) and thus, snow can be found a bit more often if not in the city, then in the mountains.

The mountains and the Rio Grande's "bosque" area provide for great outdoor recreation areas. The city's varied terrain - hilly - provides for some amazing nighttime views of millions of city lights between EP and Juarez (almost an "airplane" view that you never get in the Midwest).

The sunrises and sunsets - nearly a daily occurence - will frequently take your breath away, and are unlike what we experience at all - ever - in the Midwest.

That cool, morning, dry, desert air is a thing of beauty. The big, swaying palm trees all over the city and their quiet rustling are a cleansing thing for the spirit.

Hey, you may end up hating EP in your visits and if that is the case, it'll be a really good thing you visited! However, there are many great things about El Paso too. It isn't for everyone. Thankfully, it is for some!

[EnjoyEP]

On the "pro" EP side of the docket, a few more things I forgot to mention:

a) the food. My friend, do you like Mexican cuisine? If so, good Lord, you'll have the most abundant, inexpensive, unbelievably good Mexican food in the world readily available to you all over the place in El Paso! It fills the air in its smell it is so good. And cheap!

b) Housing. A $200,000 house in Albuqueque goes for $144,000 in El Paso, according to the Coldwell Banker website. While jobs are sometimes an issue for folks in El Paso, if you do have a great job in EP, your dollar will carry you so very darn far housing-wise in EP compared to many of the overly-bloated, expensive housing markets in the US (which is most cities...that $200,000 house in Albuquerque goes for $2-MILLION - yes MILLION!!! - in San Francisco or Boston...so a $2-million house in SF or Boston for $144K in EP).

c) The cultural thing. While in many repsects this is viewed as a "negative" by many here, hey, EP is unlike any other big city in the US. It has a neat Mexican-American flavor that can be found very little elsewhere. I have "white" kids, but I wouldn't mind exposing them to a bit of a different, more international culture. Some might hate this, others might like it!