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Old 05-31-2008, 11:04 PM
 
Location: Metro Milwaukee, WI
3,185 posts, read 11,050,563 times
Reputation: 2103

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6/3 View Post
Normally i would agree 100% as there shouldn't be tax incentives for strip malls or big box stores. But for El Paso to get a ''High End Mall'' then i'm all for it. It already has such an image problem rivaling Tucson as old and poor etc..etc.... It would be comparatively the the same as building a new 20,000 seat High End Arena as that would not create any substantive jobs but it would be a heck of an shot in the arm for EP's image and entertainment venue. Look at the new arena Tulsa is building as it's just awesome and it's gotta help Tulsa moving up the stature ladder.

But that's just my opinion on it......
6/3 - You and I, the out-of-stater folks that care deeply about EP agree largely on this issue. I think you summed this up quite nicely.
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Old 06-01-2008, 10:47 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,699,632 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HookTheBrotherUp View Post
I do believe El Paso will catch up, albeit at a much (much) slower pace as the previous poster mentions. The influx of military and their families will no doubt result in more spending. Politics aside, 'trickle-down economics' works and will prevail in El Paso, no way to avoid it really.

I also agree good jobs are better than no jobs, but you have to consider the consequences. If you compare apples to apples, you might be okay, but if you put in a store that carries the same products, higher quality, and reasonably more expensive, there will no doubt be a market for it. More often than not, people do not shop at an inferior store if they can afford better.

But what happens to the store that currently has all the customers? They currently enjoy the crowds, but then the new and improved store on the block takes them away. The old store customers flee to the "new" store. Over time the old store will fade out, unable to break even, and perhaps, unfairly earning a reputation for being less of a store than the "high end" store. This also creates more unemployment.

Competition is great, better deals for all of us, but as in any competition, there is a winner and loser. Don't expect that the city can just absorb a new retail center without affecting existing ones. Just as Walmart and SAMS put out small mom and pop stores, so too will newer retail centers at the expense of others.

El Paso leaders really need to study the plan to understand what the consequences might be. Lawmakers thought it was politically correct and a great idea to introduce ethonal additives to gasoline. That made the price of rice and corn go up substantially; look at what it's done to food prices, aka, cost of living. Those measly 3-5% raises most people get (if even that) each year have been wiped out in a few short months due to food costs alone.

I do aplogize for my tone here, I do admit it is negative, but I see things on an economic level, not paychecks alone. I would love to see El Paso progress.

Regards
I don't think your post was negative, just realistic. What happens to the stores and their employees when the new stores move in and take their business.

With gas and food prices headed up so fast and the credit crunch, the shop-till-you-drop mentality could be affected at some point.

I'm not even what you'd call poor and my trips to a mall are about 6 times a year at the most and that's just to Sears. If I have to divert that money to gas, it's probably going to be cut back to 3 trips a year to a mall and still just to Sears.
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Old 06-01-2008, 11:15 AM
 
639 posts, read 714,436 times
Reputation: 141
Well regardless of malls taking away business from other stores and things just getting to "D" expensive including gasoline and food, one must remember that things are getting expensive and we are also paying for a costly war thats where it all begins with rising cost for everything that is what we are experiancing right about NOW!

When gas is high like it is now and climbing thats when people should start tp explore other alternatives like start taking public transportation to the mall or to the doctor or where ever their needs might require, maybe even walk some.
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Old 06-01-2008, 04:09 PM
 
114 posts, read 317,625 times
Reputation: 87
I have had the opprotunity to be a part of this process and can say this proposal is truely a good for the area, city and business community. Bottomline this plan:

1) Provides no RISK to the City; the developer provides all the monies upfront

2) It will cost over $21,000,000 to remove, cleanup, and prepare the site. Regency is asking for only $12 million over a ten year period utilizing a 381 Aggrement.

3) We conducted a Town Hall Meeting and saw a power point presentation by West Miller which showed the renderings, layout and the plan. The audience overwhleming approved.

The city, county and this company have been discussing this plan. I understand that support for the plan is growing.

We have an opportunity to get rid of a blighted area, turn the Cielo Vista Mall area into a bigger regional destination point with a great indoor mall and a Lifestyle Center that will complement it and add a quality of life feature sorely needed.

For those who have not seen the renderings, The Fountains will provide a Center not matched in a 450 mile radius north, south, east or west. Visit Regency.com and you will see that it is a first class operation and they build only first class centers.

There will be new stores, a Lifestyle center and some exisiting establishments that will relocate or add additional expsoure; there are two phases. This is a wonderful opportunity to reverse the aging infrastruture of this corridor. Why turn down a $100,000,000 investement? And the possibilities for for investment are outstanding.

This third proposal is the best and should be supported. With an econommic benefit to the city/county of over $45 million annually, 2,500 jobs and $3.5 million for the city/county coffers this is a slam dunk.

There is a company (Gruen Gruen& Associates) that Regency hired to study this region and it found that there is plenty of money to support a growing retail presence in El Paso. It took a 100, 200, and 300 mile radius and found more than enough people and wealth.

El Paso for over a century was the center for commerce, trade and shopping. This decade, it has the opportunity to regain some of that. If you feel led, call/email Council and Court. Many of us have to let them know this is a good project.
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Old 06-01-2008, 05:10 PM
 
639 posts, read 714,436 times
Reputation: 141
The Fountains will provide a Center not matched in a 450 mile radious, that means Phoenix to the west, Denver to the north, Dallas/Ft Worth to the east and San Antonio to the south, this is awesome people, El Paso better not blow this opportunity,
question for 6 Foot 3, is'nt Regency the same ones that own Regency Square in Jacksonville Florida?
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Old 06-01-2008, 06:18 PM
 
13,140 posts, read 35,972,978 times
Reputation: 12074
Quote:
Originally Posted by HIGH!Lonesome View Post
question for 6 Foot 3, is'nt Regency the same ones that own Regency Square in Jacksonville Florida?
No...they currently are owned by General Growth Properties. Who built Regency Square Mall......i wouldn't know as it was there when i was in the military from 81-85 and was built in the 70's as it has kept that name all these years just like Cielo Vista Mall has the same name since the 70's also.
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Old 06-01-2008, 10:43 PM
 
5,402 posts, read 12,179,859 times
Reputation: 5403
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miner72 View Post
There is a company (Gruen Gruen& Associates) that Regency hired to study this region and it found that there is plenty of money to support a growing retail presence in El Paso. It took a 100, 200, and 300 mile radius and found more than enough people and wealth.
WOW! I almost choked on that, I have to suspend disbelief on this one. Is a PowerPoint presentation and testimonials all it takes to convince El Paso civic leaders?

What do you expect to hear when a consultant is paid tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands for positive news? Would you expect them to tell you the truth, or what you want to hear?

I have never worked on deals worth tens, or hundreds of millions, but I have worked on two to five million dollar deals with competing vendors. I've heard all the hype, witnessed the tricks, the lies, etc., that corporations can conceive to make a deal. The meeting you attended was obviously a sales pitch, but too obvious I think.

Good for the consulting agency to provide economic data, however, anybody who has the time, and skills can obtain census data for free from the U.S. Government. However, what you cannot get is a truthful answer to this question: Would you drive up to five hours, or three hundred miles to shop in El Paso?

How do these consultants know people will part with their money? Is the wealth held in liquidities, or is it tied up? The 'if you build it, they will come' mentality is pretty risky in my view.

Also, the notion that the retail center would be better than what other cities have to offer is also weak. I realize El Paso wants this, and many are eager for it, but how many people have actually been to the other cities mentioned to be able to decide if those cities don't have comparable, or better centers for shopping?

Also obvious to me in the data mentioned is that the consultants had to include potential customers not in El Paso. If El Paso itself cannot support the retail business, what makes civic leaders think other people from out of town will always be there to support such an endeavor? What would happen if El Paso had a bad winter, or a rainy season (actually not a bad thing to wish for) that would keep customers away for more than a couple of weeks? That would be devastating to any business.

The gullibility makes me wonder about the makeup of the civic leaders of El Paso. I am wondering now how many of the leaders have business/economic backgrounds? Not just college degrees, but actual experience in running large corporations.

Do the civic leaders also hear and schedule meetings with opposing sides, and if so, can anybody point me to that data? I'd like to hear the cons since none were mentioned in the data posted; that fact alone should raise flags for people.

Also, what about the El Paso Downtown development project? Can El Paso afford to dole out tax incentives (loss of tax revenue) for both initiatives? I would think El Paso would want to complete one project successfully before embarking on another when using people's hard earned (tax) dollars.

I too have wanted the master planned retail/residential/hotel properties proposed less than two miles from where I live, and so I can empathize with those of you who want this built, but my age, and career also give me insight to the realities of business. It is always a lofty idea, who can disapprove? Sometimes people can't see the forest for the trees with visions of grandeur, and excitement.

Perhaps I am in the minority, but the root of my disapproval stems from the reason that I had to leave El Paso to begin with, which were economic reasons. El Paso needs to create a more inviting business environment. Retail jobs are fine for anyone who just wants a mediocre job, but those jobs more often than not, do not create a long a lasting career and the wealth to go with it. Surely if this turns out to be a successful project, more people will have jobs, but it will not make El Paso better, if you know what I mean. El Paso will just become more service oriented, certainly not a dynamic a new college graduate will pursue. El Paso can and should do better.

Regards

Last edited by HookTheBrotherUp; 06-01-2008 at 11:41 PM..
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Old 06-02-2008, 12:49 AM
 
799 posts, read 2,578,481 times
Reputation: 609
Quote:
Originally Posted by HIGH!Lonesome View Post
The Fountains will provide a Center not matched in a 450 mile radious, that means Phoenix to the west, Denver to the north, Dallas/Ft Worth to the east and San Antonio to the south, this is awesome people, El Paso better not blow this opportunity,
question for 6 Foot 3, is'nt Regency the same ones that own Regency Square in Jacksonville Florida?
Well to the north it's not Denver. Albuquerque already has one of these high end centers......ABQ Uptown.

ABQ Uptown - Shopping in Albuquerque - Upscale Retail and Residences 2008 HBC Land LP - Home
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Old 06-02-2008, 04:51 AM
 
639 posts, read 714,436 times
Reputation: 141
Like it said a Center not matched within a 450 mile radious of El Paso, Albuquerque and Tucson fall withing that radious, so that would only mean that it will more than likely out do whats already in Albuquerque and Tucson, Denver is north of the radious.
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Old 06-02-2008, 11:04 AM
 
799 posts, read 2,578,481 times
Reputation: 609
Quote:
Originally Posted by HIGH!Lonesome View Post
Like it said a Center not matched within a 450 mile radious of El Paso, Albuquerque and Tucson fall withing that radious, so that would only mean that it will more than likely out do whats already in Albuquerque and Tucson, Denver is north of the radious.

Well from the article in the El Paso times, it doesn't sound like it's going to out do much. Please provide a link to the article that said it will out do everything in a 450 mile radius.
From the web sight it looks like they develop Shopping Centers.....NOT high end or Lifestyle Centers which include Hotels & Lofts.

Regency Centers

Last edited by observe; 06-02-2008 at 11:13 AM..
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