Are people in El Paso patriotic Americans? (live, move to)

[usmc el paso]

Originally Posted by JazzOne

It's hard to be patriotic when you aren't a citizen and/or don't speak the language of our founding documents. I seriously don't understand why English proficiency isn't required to live and work here. Our freakin' laws are in English! How can you even know what is expected of you as a resident of the US if you can't read the damn laws? Maybe we need to have the Constitution translated into Spanish so that even more people can dance all over it!

And your point is?? That there is a large number of people where their primary language is Spanish? Do you speak a second language yourself? Do you know how hard it is to learn a foreing language when you are over 25? Believe me, these Mexican immigrant kids do want to learn and do learn English I know I did. A lot of the 2nd or 3rd generationg Mexican Americans start losing their Spanish and can barely communicate with their grandparents. So back to the orginal question, the answer is a big yes. El Pasoans are very patriotic indeed!

[JazzOne]

Originally Posted by usmc el paso

And your point is??

My point is that it is unpatriotic to be ignorant of US laws when you reside here.

Originally Posted by usmc el paso

That there is a large number of people where their primary language is Spanish?

Um no, I care little about someone's primary language. I care about whether he/she is fluent in English because that is the language of our laws and founding documents. I seem to recall saying that in my original post. Seriously, you're setting up strawmen.

Originally Posted by usmc el paso

Do you speak a second language yourself Do you know how hard it is to learn a foreing language when you are over 25?

I speak three languages, and I learned Mandarin when I was living in China and older than 25. What the heck is your point?

Originally Posted by usmc el paso

Believe me, these Mexican immigrant kids do want to learn and do learn English I know I did.

Sure, many of them do want to learn English, but unfortunately, many of them are too lazy to actually do it. I commend you for learning English though I object to your grammar.

Originally Posted by usmc el paso

So back to the orginal question, the answer is a big yes. El Pasoans are very patriotic indeed!

I wish you would have given us some examples of this instead of attacking my position.

[usmc el paso]

Originally Posted by JazzOne

My point is that it is unpatriotic to be ignorant of US laws when you reside here.



Um no, I care little about someone's primary language. I care about whether he/she is fluent in English because that is the language of our laws and founding documents. I seem to recall saying that in my original post. Seriously, you're setting up strawmen.



I speak three languages, and I learned Mandarin when I was living in China and older than 25. What the heck is your point?



Sure, many of them do want to learn English, but unfortunately, many of them are too lazy to actually do it. I commend you for learning English though I object to your grammar.



I wish you would have given us some examples of this instead of attacking my position.

I was expecting you to come back with that exact answer, that you speak three languages. So you say you speak Mandarin, what other language do you speak? Of course there is no way for you to prove that you do actually speak Mandarin. But if you learned Mandarin after the age of 25 then congratulations you are very unique. The fact of the matter is that the vast majority of native born Americans speak only English. I am not saying that is wrong, just proving the point that if it was so easy to learn a total new language after the age of 25 then about 1/3 of all native Americans would speak a second or third language instead of just one.

[usmc el paso]

Originally Posted by JazzOne

My point is that it is unpatriotic to be ignorant of US laws when you reside here.



Um no, I care little about someone's primary language. I care about whether he/she is fluent in English because that is the language of our laws and founding documents. I seem to recall saying that in my original post. Seriously, you're setting up strawmen.



I speak three languages, and I learned Mandarin when I was living in China and older than 25. What the heck is your point?



Sure, many of them do want to learn English, but unfortunately, many of them are too lazy to actually do it. I commend you for learning English though I object to your grammar.



I wish you would have given us some examples of this instead of attacking my position.

You can object to my grammar all you want, I really could care less. What I do object is for you to generalize a whole group of people like you are doing right now. You stated that "many of them are too lazy to actually do it" how do you know that? People get in trouble when they start doing exactly what you are doing. By the way, I do speak three languages, they are English, Spanish & Portuguese. My experience tells me that any young person whether they come from Russia, China, Mexico or any other nation will learn English because they want to assimilate and be part of the "cool" American culture. That is not just my experience but the experience of every young immigrant that has come to this great country. Again stop generalizing a whole group of people.

[mistabinks]

Originally Posted by malamute

74% of El Paso's population speaks Spanish in the home and as their primary language. About a third of the population here speaks only Spanish.

Source please. Link please.

[Gary Siete]

Originally Posted by mistabinks

Source please. Link please.

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/48/48141.html
Language other than English spoken at home, pct age 5+, 2000 73.3%

http://www.ci.el-paso.tx.us/_documen...2006%20ACS.pdf
According to this census PDF, 38% of those who speak Spanish at home - Speak English less than "very well"

Other El Paso demographics: http://www.ci.el-paso.tx.us/demo.asp

[JazzOne]

Originally Posted by usmc el paso

What I do object is for you to generalize a whole group of people like you are doing right now. You stated that "many of them are too lazy to actually do it" how do you know that?

I did not generalize. I said exactly what you quoted: "many of them are too lazy to actually do it." The word "many" simply means "a lot of." That is not really a generalization at all. I never said "all" or even "most."

How do I know what I assert? I've been teaching in El Paso for the past five years. I have taught hundreds (possibly thousands) of young students, many of whom were too lazy to study English.

Originally Posted by usmc el paso

People get in trouble when they start doing exactly what you are doing.

Oh noez!!!! The PC police will come to get me!!!!

Originally Posted by usmc el paso

My experience tells me that any young person whether they come from Russia, China, Mexico or any other nation will learn English because they want to assimilate and be part of the "cool" American culture. That is not just my experience but the experience of every young immigrant that has come to this great country. Again stop generalizing a whole group of people.

You use the terms "any" and "every" and then accuse me of generalizing a whole group? LOL

You should really think about your positions before you post. Your rhetoric is way to easy to debunk. You certainly cannot know about the experience of "every young immigrant."

Hello Pot, meet Mr. Kettle!

[JazzOne]

Originally Posted by usmc el paso

I was expecting you to come back with that exact answer, that you speak three languages. So you say you speak Mandarin, what other language do you speak? Of course there is no way for you to prove that you do actually speak Mandarin.

What difference does it make what languages I speak? Ad hominem attacks are pretty unconvincing. You cannot debate the issue, so you change the subject to me. Nice try.

Originally Posted by usmc el paso

The fact of the matter is that the vast majority of native born Americans speak only English. I am not saying that is wrong, just proving the point that if it was so easy to learn a total new language after the age of 25 then about 1/3 of all native Americans would speak a second or third language instead of just one.

I never said it was easy. Being patriotic isn't always easy.

[Fred1209]

Originally Posted by JazzOne

I did not generalize. I said exactly what you quoted: "many of them are too lazy to actually do it." The word "many" simply means "a lot of." That is not really a generalization at all. I never said "all" or even "most."

How do I know what I assert? I've been teaching in El Paso for the past five years. I have taught hundreds (possibly thousands) of young students, many of whom were too lazy to study English.



Oh noez!!!! The PC police will come to get me!!!!



You use the terms "any" and "every" and then accuse me of generalizing a whole group? LOL

You should really think about your positions before you post. Your rhetoric is way to easy to debunk. You certainly cannot know about the experience of "every young immigrant."

Hello Pot, meet Mr. Kettle!

You did not debunk anything to him or anyone else on this forum, only in your mind. Guess what buddy, I've been teaching at the Ysleta Independent School District for 12 years and have yet to encounter an immigrant kid that did not want to learn English. It's not a matter of being lazy or not since English can be easily picked up in your teenage years by reading your textbooks, talking to your friends and watching tv. I know, I've met many wonderful kids troughout the years. It appears that he struck a nerve.

[JazzOne]

Originally Posted by Fred1209

You did not debunk anything to him or anyone else on this forum, only in your mind. Guess what buddy, I've been teaching at the Ysleta Independent School District for 12 years and have yet to encounter an immigrant kid that did not want to learn English. It's not a matter of being lazy or not sincet English can be easily picked up in your teenage years by reading your textbooks, talking to your friends and watching tv. It appears that he struck a nerve to me.

Give me a break. More strawmen? I never said that they don't want to learn English. I said that many were too lazy to actually do it. Reading comprehension must not be your forte. Perhaps it is easy to learn English by reading textbooks. Oh wait, there's the problem. A lot of kids won't read the textbooks. One of my immigrant students confided to me that the only reason she attends school is so that the judge will not fine her mother.

I love a good debate, but please don't misrepresent my position. Your logic is about as strong as USMC's. (Just so you understand, that means it's not very strong.) And yes, he did strike a nerve by misrepresenting my opinion, just as you have.

Edit: I obviously did debunk USMC's rhetoric. He claimed that I generalized when I absolutely did not. In fact, he is the one who generalized.