May be moving to El Paso, need some info please :) (San Antonio: for rent, credit)
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Dont worry bree, I'm from Indianapolis too and will be moving to El Paso in a week, I've been trying to find the same information you. I stopped in for a day a couple weeks ago before my flight back to Indy. It seems like a very pleasant town. Very fast paced compared to Indianapolis, but alot of friendly people. It is very close to the border, but you would never guess it. I had heard terrible things about the city but I have talked to many people and from what I saw the other week, it seems like a very nice place. I'll be there in a few days and will be sure to post again and let you know what I think. GO COLTS!
Yes! GO COLTS! It's cool here and I like it well enough. I am just used to great Indy shopping or taking the train into Chicago (so I can drink ) to do some awesome shopping! So nice to "see" another Hoosier here.
lack of diversity - In the same way the midwest is mostly white, El Paso is mostly hispanic. I dont think you will experience racism but people from larger/multi cultural cities are put off by this fact. Some posts say you need spanish, you can live without it but I'd start learning. its part of the culture and the experience. My spanish sucks, I can understand others but still can't talk. People are meet are usually helpful so dont be intimidated to try.
It irritates me that people still perpetuate this. Spanish is helpful, but far from necessary. People tend to assume that the population in El Paso is solely monolingual, when the truth is that the city is bilingual. Even native Spanish speakers with poor English can still communicate.
Food - El Paso is a seriously overweight city with limited healthy options. You have two basic options, greasy mexican food and american fast food/corporate restaurant chains. The food is from northen mexico and I am used to the variety we had in LA, lots of vegtables. El paso uses alot of meat and tortillas with little vegtables. Also the salsa is mostly peppers/LA uses more tomatoes. Im not knocking the quality, but it was a surprise to me when I got here. If you look hard enough, there are some good indian/italian places, but they are not common. Also, if you like whole food stores (ex: trader joes), you will have problems.
Again, perpetuation of old thoughts.
This list speaks for itself:
Crave Kitchen and Bar
Cattleman's Steakhouse
Koze Teppan Grill
Geske's Fire Grill
Mi Piaci Ristorante
The Garden Restaurant
Geogeske
Pelican's Restaurant
State Line Restaurant
Magic Pan Restaurant El Paso Restaurants | Urbanspoon
Seriously Overweight? The 'study' that looked at that was bs. It only looked at gyms and attendance figures. This dis not include working habits, exercise other than that, jogging walking, etc. Go to a park on any given day and you'll see hundreds of people walking and jogging.
Appearance of the City - El Paso is very old and rich in history. That being said, it also has very low incomes and it looks really dirty. The downtown looks as if it has not been updated since ~1977. It has some very beautiful buildings (same style as downtown denver) but they are very run down. The rest of the city is filled with west coast style shopping centers. For new comers, there are few historic markers that detail what the city has to offer. Ive been here two years and am still finding really cool sites. We have a few museums to start with but for some reason, the city does not advertise its own history. Also, compared to most major cities, the museums are kinda sad. Another factor, the city is covered in trash.
Nature/recreation - I don't think the area will have what you are looking for. We have many hiking trails but they are not like what you experienced in the east coast (im thinking of shenedoah and the smokies). The trails do not have shade and though the desert is robust with nature, it is of a different variety and will seem sparse. There is no water, so forget whitewater rafting and canoeing. In fact the city is zero scaped, i.e. no vegetation. Medians have rock designs rather than grass. So if a nature walk in the woods is your idea of recreation, it probably wont work. But, if you want to hike in the franklin mountains and have wide open views of the landscape and sunsets, you found the right place. Some posts have mentioned ruidoso and cloudcroft. They are forests compared to el paso, but the trees are really small and sparse. It is nothing like what you may have seen in photos from wyoming/montana/colorado.
Work - There is a serious lack of jobs in the city and incomes are generally lower. I dont know what your husband does, but make sure to find a position before coming. There is alot of nepotism in the city.
To a certain extent you are correct, but you exaggerate the problem. From march of 2008 to march of 2009, the city added 4,000 jobs. That is only the begging of growth.
Attitude of People - this will be your biggest shock when you come. The people here are real friendly when you get to know them, but are very rude in public. They cut in front of you in stores, constantly litter (the city is covered in trash bags), and rarely offer greetings. Its a real jekyl and hyde mystery and I have no explanation. Also, they are terrible drivers, they cut across parking lots at high speed, weave through traffic, have no idea how to merge in an orderly fashion, cut in front of you when you have nobody behind you, cut across three lanes of traffic at once b/c they didn't plan ahead, and many more. I dont want to put the city down, but it makes alot of out of town people unconfortable and is a serious complaint.
This has got to be the biggest load of bs ever. Ask any visitor how people in El Paso how they've been treated, they'll say that the people in El Paso here the nicest and most welcoming- a recent example being the bowling tournament.
Last edited by catperson; 06-15-2010 at 08:51 PM..
How ugly/devoid of vegetation
By the way, this is the westside, where I think you would like to live.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mpaulda/ (broken link)
Last edited by catperson; 06-15-2010 at 09:11 PM..
Thanks for the response catperson, I think the points you brought up are great and necessitate a discussion on the difference in perception of El Paso for someone who grew up here and someone who is just arriving. I did not want offend anyone or denigrate the city; I’ve enjoyed my time here but I noticed a big difference from what I read on this forum before I moved here and what I saw when I came. Seriously, I think that if we want to be honest to the people who are looking to these posts for life altering decisions, we should account for all opinions including those that might not be favorable. I’ll tackle how I see your comments and maybe it could highlight my point.
Monolingual:
We are talking about two different subjects here: (1) is El Paso culturally diverse and (2) do you need Spanish or English. I did not intend to represent El Paso as monolingual. You could you live, work, and experience the city with either language but I think that Spanish is a big part of the experience and it’s a good thing. For someone from Virginia who has not been around the hispanic culture, it’s going to be a real experience to see and hear El Paso. Look, I grew up in LA and my wife grew up in Mexico, so for me and im assuming the people of El Paso, it is not very interesting but to Meenie it would be so yes, spanish is part of the experience.
In regard to diversity, I’m sorry but to outsiders, there is no real diversity here. I understand you probably see the nuances in your city but we don’t. Growing up in LA, I got used to a variety of populations, hispanic, african american, asian, indian, etc. and I could have any type of food imaginable. I had a girlfriend who used to take me too little ethopia for dinner and to Pasadena for midwest style deserts. I don’t think this has to be a bad thing, El Paso has strong cultural roots and its food is an experience, but to be fair to people like Meenie, we have to let her know that El Paso is mostly mono-cultural.
Food and Exercise:
I found three relevant sources:
Paso del Norte Health Organization website (current)
Welcome to Paso del Norte Health Foundation - El Paso Health Report (http://www.pdnhf.org/detail.asp?dt=topics&id=68&arch=yes&fr=c - broken link)
The Paso Del Norte Health Organization (PDNHO) reports that “33% of El Pasoans were overweight vs. 28.6% of the Texas population and that “over half of El Pasoans 45-64 year olds were overweight.” In regard to your comment on exercise not from the gym, the PDNHO states that “approximately 75% of El Pasoans don’t get enough exercise” Look, state like California, Colorado, Montana, Oregon, and Washington value activity much more than El Paso. I am not saying everyone here is overweight and that no one goes to the park. Go on any given Sunday and it is ripe with soccer (futbol) matches but from my perspective, El Paso is not very active.
Vegeataion:
The pics you posted are beautiful the hikes have trees but if Meenie were to stroll down these paths, she would think they are bushes. My point is that El Paso has a very different climate than what someone from Virginia, coastal California, Indianapolis, etc. is used to. To us, it’s a desert. I know that the city is adjacent to the Rio Grande, which makes it greener than the surrounding area, but it is still in the Chihuahua desert. But, Lets sell El Paso for what it does have, great views from the Franklins, Wyler Tramway, Scenic Drive which has a bunch of fossils 20feet from the parking area, amazing rock climbing at the Hueco Tanks (including petroglyphs), dinosaur foot prints on mt cristo rey, it is a few hours to white sands, Carlsbad caverns, and the Guadalupe mountains which have the world’s foremost exposed ancient reef complexes.
Appearance/Museums:
I’m sorry, but the museums are not quite up to par when you look at cities of similar size. Indianapolis (~800k people) has their museum on land donated by the Lily family which has beautiful manicured gardens, canals where they host weekly movies outside, 54,000 pieces, and the special exhibits are more frequent and dynamic. In the two years I saw several special exhibits including Egyptian art, Chinese art, a Kerouac exhibit complete with his manuscript for on the road, and historic dresses by tiffany’s. Again, let’s sell El Paso for what it does have. It is a city built on the most historic location in the United States which goes beyond museums. I went to the international museum on Montana and got a guided tour of the back rooms and the balcony with a history lesson on the Mexican revolution b/c the museum occupies a house the views the border. But to someone from outside, the history is hard to find. I saw a great post on this very fact here: El Paso Sabotage's History
In regard to your comment that I have not left the I-10, that is not the case and I take a little offense. I have done my best to see El Paso including include the mission trail, Alameda and Montana streets, frequented the Mercado, downtown, cattleman’s ranch, scenic drive, rim road, hit most of the major east side places, done the border highway, pasiano drive, music under the stars, ascarte park, rosa’s cantina, Canutillo for the little dinner, ate at L&J’s, etc. and though I have enjoyed the city, it is covered in trash. You have showed some nice pictures but if you look at the bus stop next to the history museum (1st pic) you have a different perspective. Also, the union plaza is nice (2nd pic) as is the Chavez theater but seriously, let’s also show a picture of S. El Paso st. which is a block away. The 3rd pic, of the centro (alligators) is nice, but there is a reason it shows a skyward view and blocks what the kress building has become.
Attitude of People:
I agree, wonderful people but still stand by Jekyll and hyde.
I think alov0303 is right - El Paso really is not the greenest looking city you could expect to find but all of us could find certain shots with a lot of vegetation. If lush green tree-lined shady streets is what you're looking for, you're really not going to find it here. And it's true that more people speak Spanish than English here but you can get by in some jobs with English only. If you speak English, you're not going to know a lot of the conversations going on around you. That's true in cities like Mexico City and Guadalajara, you can get by in English but you will be limited.
Thanks for the response catperson, I think the points you brought up are great and necessitate a discussion on the difference in perception of El Paso for someone who grew up here and someone who is just arriving. I did not want offend anyone or denigrate the city; I’ve enjoyed my time here but I noticed a big difference from what I read on this forum before I moved here and what I saw when I came. Seriously, I think that if we want to be honest to the people who are looking to these posts for life altering decisions, we should account for all opinions including those that might not be favorable. I’ll tackle how I see your comments and maybe it could highlight my point.
Monolingual:
We are talking about two different subjects here: (1) is El Paso culturally diverse and (2) do you need Spanish or English. I did not intend to represent El Paso as monolingual. You could you live, work, and experience the city with either language but I think that Spanish is a big part of the experience and it’s a good thing. For someone from Virginia who has not been around the hispanic culture, it’s going to be a real experience to see and hear El Paso. Look, I grew up in LA and my wife grew up in Mexico, so for me and im assuming the people of El Paso, it is not very interesting but to Meenie it would be so yes, spanish is part of the experience.
In regard to diversity, I’m sorry but to outsiders, there is no real diversity here. I understand you probably see the nuances in your city but we don’t. Growing up in LA, I got used to a variety of populations, hispanic, african american, asian, indian, etc. and I could have any type of food imaginable. I had a girlfriend who used to take me too little ethopia for dinner and to Pasadena for midwest style deserts. I don’t think this has to be a bad thing, El Paso has strong cultural roots and its food is an experience, but to be fair to people like Meenie, we have to let her know that El Paso is mostly mono-cultural.
Food and Exercise:
I found three relevant sources:
Paso del Norte Health Organization website (current)
Welcome to Paso del Norte Health Foundation - El Paso Health Report (http://www.pdnhf.org/detail.asp?dt=topics&id=68&arch=yes&fr=c - broken link)
The Paso Del Norte Health Organization (PDNHO) reports that “33% of El Pasoans were overweight vs. 28.6% of the Texas population and that “over half of El Pasoans 45-64 year olds were overweight.” In regard to your comment on exercise not from the gym, the PDNHO states that “approximately 75% of El Pasoans don’t get enough exercise” Look, state like California, Colorado, Montana, Oregon, and Washington value activity much more than El Paso. I am not saying everyone here is overweight and that no one goes to the park. Go on any given Sunday and it is ripe with soccer (futbol) matches but from my perspective, El Paso is not very active.
Vegeataion:
The pics you posted are beautiful the hikes have trees but if Meenie were to stroll down these paths, she would think they are bushes. My point is that El Paso has a very different climate than what someone from Virginia, coastal California, Indianapolis, etc. is used to. To us, it’s a desert. I know that the city is adjacent to the Rio Grande, which makes it greener than the surrounding area, but it is still in the Chihuahua desert. But, Lets sell El Paso for what it does have, great views from the Franklins, Wyler Tramway, Scenic Drive which has a bunch of fossils 20feet from the parking area, amazing rock climbing at the Hueco Tanks (including petroglyphs), dinosaur foot prints on mt cristo rey, it is a few hours to white sands, Carlsbad caverns, and the Guadalupe mountains which have the world’s foremost exposed ancient reef complexes.
Appearance/Museums:
I’m sorry, but the museums are not quite up to par when you look at cities of similar size. Indianapolis (~800k people) has their museum on land donated by the Lily family which has beautiful manicured gardens, canals where they host weekly movies outside, 54,000 pieces, and the special exhibits are more frequent and dynamic. In the two years I saw several special exhibits including Egyptian art, Chinese art, a Kerouac exhibit complete with his manuscript for on the road, and historic dresses by tiffany’s. Again, let’s sell El Paso for what it does have. It is a city built on the most historic location in the United States which goes beyond museums. I went to the international museum on Montana and got a guided tour of the back rooms and the balcony with a history lesson on the Mexican revolution b/c the museum occupies a house the views the border. But to someone from outside, the history is hard to find. I saw a great post on this very fact here: El Paso Sabotage's History
In regard to your comment that I have not left the I-10, that is not the case and I take a little offense. I have done my best to see El Paso including include the mission trail, Alameda and Montana streets, frequented the Mercado, downtown, cattleman’s ranch, scenic drive, rim road, hit most of the major east side places, done the border highway, pasiano drive, music under the stars, ascarte park, rosa’s cantina, Canutillo for the little dinner, ate at L&J’s, etc. and though I have enjoyed the city, it is covered in trash. You have showed some nice pictures but if you look at the bus stop next to the history museum (1st pic) you have a different perspective. Also, the union plaza is nice (2nd pic) as is the Chavez theater but seriously, let’s also show a picture of S. El Paso st. which is a block away. The 3rd pic, of the centro (alligators) is nice, but there is a reason it shows a skyward view and blocks what the kress building has become.
Attitude of People:
I agree, wonderful people but still stand by Jekyll and hyde.
With regard to language/diversity that may have been the case in the past, but it is important to note that times in El Paso are changing the Fort Bliss expansion is bringing over 50000 new people to the area, which represents a huge shift in demographics in El Paso. I think that this is incontrovertible. I can guarantee you, about 80 or 90% of these people will speak English as their first language. Though that should not even matter, isn't it amazing to live in a bilingual environment? Isn't that what makes the city cosmopolitan?
While I agree that the city has an issue with weight, I believe that the issue is over-exaggerated. If you go to the mall or the movies, you'll see that the numbers do not reflect upon the population as much as they seem.
I completely agree that El Paso does have beautiful desert scenery, that's a reason I love it so much. However, it is a lie to say that it has 'no vegetation at all.' I was trying to show the mendacity in that statement.
I have never been to Indianapolis, and I don't doubt what you say. I'm sure, being the largest city in Indiana it has many attractions and galleries. It would be a lie to say that El Paso doesn't have any galleries, as shown in the link that I posted. The city is rapidly changing for the better, and you can constantly see the city improving. I'm not sure if you live in El Paso anymore, but the city is going through a sort of renaissance. The downtown revitalization is going to completely change the face of the city's center, the Union Plaza and Cincinnati Street districts are burgeoning with new bars and restaurants, and the city has been very proactive in trying to boost and improve the city.
Concisely, I am trying to say that there are many factors in the city's growth and transformation, and every day it is changing. The city has two major art museums, many other smaller galleries opening up every month, UTEP is on it's way to becoming tier-one, the Medical Center of the Americas is expanding with the Medical School (the only medical school on the U.S.-Mexico border) and Children's Hospital, there is a music festival in the planning stages for the city, downtown is being revitalized, 50000 new residents of all backgrounds are coming, jobs are expanding, ambitious young people are opening up many new restaurants and bars, the city holds one of the world's largest Classical Film Festivals, there is just so much going on. It is truly an exciting time. Again, I'm not sure if you still live in El Paso or not, but you are saying some thing that perpetuate our image as a second-rate city, when that is certainly not true.
If I were you I'd subscribe to the El Paso Times for one month and read all about it. There is simply too much to discuss. We have lived here for 32 years and I hate it more each day! Our weather turned hot, into the low 100's about two weeks ago. You cannot breathe. It's a high allergy place. People use swamp coolers and you certainly cannot breathe if you run those in your home. If I could, I'd leave in one hour.
Now, for sick elderly veterans it's ideal. They LOVE the heat. They LOVE going to dialysis. They LOVE being taken care of by their tired wives.
I'll try to answer some of your other questions as I think of them or make some other statements as they come to mind.
Yes, there are a lot of bugs near the canal. Another place I hate.
It's difficult sometimes to get around the mountain and if there is an accident on I-10, bring a snack. Also, there is so much construction work going on building new freeways you really need to keep your wits about you when driving. Thank goodness they have enacted a no cell phones while driving law. The reason for this, I think, is the influx of thousands of troops and their families to Ft. Bliss.
When we moved here our friends wanted us to live on the west side, but there were NO homes to buy there. So we found a new house near Ft. Bliss and have been here ever since. Unfortunately the builder neglected to tell us that he used the most inferior materials and workers, so by now the entire home has been replaced, bit by bit and we've added on two very large rooms. It seems to be a ridiculous theme here with building homes with lots of bedrooms and a kitchen no one can stand up in if someone else is in there with them.
All in all and not to belabor all these negative points (I could think of many, many more as well) I think you should take the newspaper for a while and also come here as a simple tourist. Read about the daily murders in Juarez, Mexico, where we enjoyed going 30 years ago. Go on ever tour of El Paso you can and ask every question you can. Things are usually painted as all glorious, but when you dig down deeper it's terrible.
By the way, where are you now? Maybe it's better there!!! Maybe I could move there!!! Maybe you can grow grass there - and trees - and flowers?
If I were you I'd subscribe to the El Paso Times for one month and read all about it. There is simply too much to discuss. We have lived here for 32 years and I hate it more each day! Our weather turned hot, into the low 100's about two weeks ago. You cannot breathe. It's a high allergy place. People use swamp coolers and you certainly cannot breathe if you run those in your home. If I could, I'd leave in one hour.
Now, for sick elderly veterans it's ideal. They LOVE the heat. They LOVE going to dialysis. They LOVE being taken care of by their tired wives.
I'll try to answer some of your other questions as I think of them or make some other statements as they come to mind.
Yes, there are a lot of bugs near the canal. Another place I hate.
It's difficult sometimes to get around the mountain and if there is an accident on I-10, bring a snack. Also, there is so much construction work going on building new freeways you really need to keep your wits about you when driving. Thank goodness they have enacted a no cell phones while driving law. The reason for this, I think, is the influx of thousands of troops and their families to Ft. Bliss.
When we moved here our friends wanted us to live on the west side, but there were NO homes to buy there. So we found a new house near Ft. Bliss and have been here ever since. Unfortunately the builder neglected to tell us that he used the most inferior materials and workers, so by now the entire home has been replaced, bit by bit and we've added on two very large rooms. It seems to be a ridiculous theme here with building homes with lots of bedrooms and a kitchen no one can stand up in if someone else is in there with them.
All in all and not to belabor all these negative points (I could think of many, many more as well) I think you should take the newspaper for a while and also come here as a simple tourist. Read about the daily murders in Juarez, Mexico, where we enjoyed going 30 years ago. Go on ever tour of El Paso you can and ask every question you can. Things are usually painted as all glorious, but when you dig down deeper it's terrible.
By the way, where are you now? Maybe it's better there!!! Maybe I could move there!!! Maybe you can grow grass there - and trees - and flowers?
Sincerely,
Shiralee74
WOW!! Interesting perspective. Thank you. In the past this kind of talk would start up a firestorm within me. But surprisingly it did not. Could it be the desire is finally out? We shall see.
I live in Austin. There are alot of ex-El Pasoans. Most are embarrased to admit it too. Me, I wear my UTEP T-shirts everywhere. Nobody cares really. But on occassion I will get a "Go UTEP" shout out. The main answer I get to this question:
Q:Why did you leave El Paso?
A:I make twice as much here than there.
No surprise there.
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) to do some awesome shopping! So nice to "see" another Hoosier here.
