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Old 07-16-2010, 08:03 PM
 
Location: Guangzhou, China
9,616 posts, read 12,694,571 times
Reputation: 11166

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Quote:
Originally Posted by FargoBison View Post
It is crap, Obama wasted over an entire year on health care. In the middle of a terrible economy he sat around and had everyone in DC screaming at each other about something that wasn't half as important as the economy.
He "wasted" an entire year on one of the biggest problems we have in the US. If he'd actually gotten something done, it would have been worthwhile.

I am not pleased with the outcome, and feel like it is, at the end of the day, really nothing. I'm not disavowing this by any stretch. How many times do I have to reiterate that I don't like the guy? I like Bush less, but why do people have to assume that because I don't like Bush, I must love Obama? That's just nonsense.

This has nothing to do with what happened to our economy under Bush's administration, which is what I was addressing.

Upon his getting elected, people on the right seemed to collectively throw up their hands and say, "Okay, Mr. Liberal Messiah, work your... MIRACLES and FIX THE ECONOMY!" Ten minutes later, when the economy wasn't fixed, they started declaring him a failure, rather than addressing the fact that they had, by-and-large, supported an ideology that got us into this mess in the first place. So many people are sticking to their guns when they're out of ammo, and that's not an admirable or sensible thing to do.

Quote:
All Obama has done is put more regulations onto everything and has pretty much made it next to impossible to not raise taxes. He just keeps on pouring gasoline on the economic fire of recklessness that was burning when he got into office.
Deregulation of the financial industry is the primary reason for what got us into this mess. Welcome to living in a society. Can you tell me of a well-functioning society that doesn't pay taxes?

I'm guessing that you are morally opposed to regulation and any interference with the free market and so my saying so just furthers your grievances with what I'm saying - if I'm incorrect, forgive me for making a poor judgement call. I'm not looking to turn this into a debate on personal ideals.

Quote:
Oh and just like Bush, Obama is in bed bigtime with lobbyists and big corporations. He can try to paint a picture that he fights wall street greed but Big Pharma wrote his health care bill, screwing the American public out of having access to cheaper medical care.
Yep. I don't like him. I didn't vote for him because I didn't see him as being enough of a change, and I didn't agree with all this "HOPE" nonsense he built his campaign on: I want facts and results, not "hope." Hope is what I get when I buy a lottery ticket; results are what I get when I take a paycheck home.

It's a shame no one gave us a candidate that was worth anything this time around.

Quote:
I wish the guy had just focused on fixing Bush's problems, now the next president is going to have to fix both of their mistakes. Good luck to whoever gets that job.
You say that it's not crap, and then admit that the economic woes we are facing are the Bush administration's fault. If the Bush administration hadn't screwed everything up - with the inferred blessing of his constituency - then would any of this be an issue? No! Look, I know you probably bristle when you hear someone "blame Bush" but it's not like I'm just writing everything off to him. We could have focused on healthcare - which is a big freaking issue in this country - if we hadn't lived through eight years of slash-and-burn economics where the financial sector had it's cake, ate it too, and then went after the rest of the country's cake as well!

Now we have to slog through the resolution of all the social problems we have as a nation with an empty wallet, too. Super.

Obama inherited the failures of an administration (one of the worst ones we've ever had), and concurrent to their failures (economy, war), he was also handed many other social problems that had been ignored by multiple administrations going back generations in some cases, all of which are and were getting to a crisis point: education and healthcare being two of the chief issues. He hasn't handled any of the above effectively, but at least he isn't actively detrimental to America like the Bush Administration was, not like that's anything virtuous.
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Old 07-17-2010, 09:15 AM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
68,729 posts, read 78,769,000 times
Reputation: 38167
Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k View Post
I blame the parents for fat kids.

I also blame parents and the lack of structure in their upbringing as part of the reason that many of the people of my generation and even more of the generation younger than me are of questionable ambition and ability. That has nothing to do with Bush, the GOP, the left, the Dems, etc.

The economic issues that we are attempting to get through right now are a direct result of the Bush administration's polcies and so yes, it is his fault. I know that a lot of conservatives automatically stop listening and go on the offensive, but it is the simple truth, and no matter how much you make anecdotal statements like "next thing you know people will be blaming him for fat kids," it doesn't change the reality.

What is happening with our economy right now would not be happening if the Bush administration had done such a number on our economy.

And you know what? There probably are people blaming Bush for fat kids! They're idiots.

The mishandling of BP happened under Obama's watch and is his problem, and the mishandling is his fault. The Bush Administration shoulders a small piece of blame for bending over and taking it for big oil and their massive deregulations, but again, it happened under Obama's watch, it's his issue.

If Obama's favorite past time is his photo op, Bush's favorite past time wasn't much different. Oh, he also started a couple wars (one of which I agree with [Afghanistan], the other of which was really unnecessary [Iraq]). You say that he "may do more damage than any of us can imagine before he leaves." So far, he hasn't, he's been basically a two-year stopgap - may I reiterate to you that I don't like him much? - but it's clear you've already made up your mind.

It's like when he won and people started saying he was "gonna take our guns" and on the gun forum I post on, people were like "hey guys, look at my new NOBAMA!" and posted pics of their new AR15 with a beta-C. I'd point out that he hadn't made any moves to ban guns and that since the Brady Bill was an abject failure it was unlikely to get pushed through again, and they'd say "it has yet to be seen." They've already made up their minds (and on that may I point out that you can now carry firearms in National Parks), you've already made up yours.

I spent eight years trying to convince friends who were knee-jerk leftists that Bush wasn't going to send us off to concentration camps, reinstate the draft, or start a war on Mexico. Now, I've spent the last two years and will most likely spend the next 2-6 years trying to convince friends who are knee-jerk right wingers that Obama won't send us off to concentration camps, take our guns, or organize a gestapo.

I definitely identify as liberal overall, and I make no bones about it, but liberal and democrat are two different things, just as many conservatives are fast to point out that conservative and Republican are two different things. More than my views having been formed by where I live, my views have attracted me to where I live. I love San Francisco overall, but socially, I find it to be - again - too "knee-jerk liberal" for me to enjoy in the long-term. The feelgood policies that this city has in effect have resulted in an explosion of homeless neer-do-wells (bad); it's resulted in an education system that is impotent because teachers fear lawsuits for trying to get kids to actually study, or that their lessons in American history will result in protests by La Raza; the other day, someone tried to get me to sign a petition to increase the pension benefits to city employees and I declined. She pushed the issue with me, and I told her flat out that I don't support people getting paid 90% of their paycheck for the rest of their lives (20, 30, 40 years?) after having worked an overpaid city job for 5 years, that it'd bankrupt the city completely. She was shocked that I actually knew enough about the proposition to give a retort to it, because most people here will just sign it.

Hell, I was on a date once, and a protest went by. The girl said, "oh wow, let's go join them!" I asked her if she knew what it was for; she didn't. I asked her why she'd want to join a protest that she didn't know anything about? She was completely put off by this and we never went on another date.

My views were also formed from having lived in working-class towns and suburbs all through my childhood and early teens, and having all my family on both sides still living there. It's always shocked me how many of them are willing to vote against their own self-interest in the spirit of what some talking head on TV or behind a pulpit tells them is "moral."

I appreciate that you appreciate that I am a young person who is concerned with politics, but please don't write me off because I live in San Francisco and disagree with you on the Bush Administration's responsibility for the situation that we're in.
this is going nowhere fast, so I will say just a couple of things. 1-where is your sense of humor? No one is really blaming Bush for fat kids, the comment was meant in jist...2-stop blaming Bush for everything. As I have said, I do not think he was a good Pres, but I do not blame him for Obama not getting us on the road to recovery nor do I support his constant raising our debt level even higher. It is time we all realize we have elected a Pres that can not do the job. BTW, I am not one that is saying he will not win a second term either. I would never doubt his ability to accomplish the impossible when it comes to influencing the public. This is his only talent and he certianly has it...

Nita
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Old 07-17-2010, 06:04 PM
 
1,013 posts, read 734,707 times
Reputation: 483
Quote:
He "wasted" an entire year on one of the biggest problems we have in the US. If he'd actually gotten something done, it would have been worthwhile.

I am not pleased with the outcome, and feel like it is, at the end of the day, really nothing. I'm not disavowing this by any stretch. How many times do I have to reiterate that I don't like the guy? I like Bush less, but why do people have to assume that because I don't like Bush, I must love Obama? That's just nonsense.

This has nothing to do with what happened to our economy under Bush's administration, which is what I was addressing.

Upon his getting elected, people on the right seemed to collectively throw up their hands and say, "Okay, Mr. Liberal Messiah, work your... MIRACLES and FIX THE ECONOMY!" Ten minutes later, when the economy wasn't fixed, they started declaring him a failure, rather than addressing the fact that they had, by-and-large, supported an ideology that got us into this mess in the first place. So many people are sticking to their guns when they're out of ammo, and that's not an admirable or sensible thing to do.
Ok to address your point. Health-care is still NOT resolved even with that 2000 page+ bill being passed.

MY god at least make it readable damn corrupt politicians. NO ONE IS GOING TO READ THE DAMN THING.

The healthcare bill should pretty much be dead but it got passed.

Now insurance companies are happy because it forces everyone and their dog to become their slaves forever after being born. NO choice in the matter you have to buy it.

IMO insurance is a total waste anyway in the grand scheme of things its just a collective who voluntarily gives up some money to be theoretically protected but if everyone claimed they would be bankrupt like a PONZI SCHEME(FIAT MONEY,SOCIAL SECURITY).

Doctors have to hire more people to deal with administration costs.
Doctors have to buy even more insurance because poor money hospital chases want to sue them for money on groundless claims.

Med schools being so expensive. WHY NOT JUST MAKE IT APPRENTICESHIP, no more med school you get paid as an intern to help the doctors as an assistant. Take tests every few years to become certified as a real doc.

BEST way to learn is experience not from school anyway. REMEMBER EINSTEIN did not go to college.

Anyway solve these problems and it will increase the supply of nurses+ doctors to lower the wage cost and doctors stress levels.

You do not need a 2000+ page bill full of corrupt loop holes to solve the problem.
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Old 07-17-2010, 06:18 PM
 
1,013 posts, read 734,707 times
Reputation: 483
Quote:
Deregulation of the financial industry is the primary reason for what got us into this mess. Welcome to living in a society. Can you tell me of a well-functioning society that doesn't pay taxes?

I'm guessing that you are morally opposed to regulation and any interference with the free market and so my saying so just furthers your grievances with what I'm saying - if I'm incorrect, forgive me for making a poor judgement call. I'm not looking to turn this into a debate on personal ideals.
Umm all Societies pay taxes BUT income taxes were not until after 1913.

Anyway. YES part of the problem was deregulation of the GLASS STEAGALL act. It was because it let stock brokers become regular banks LIKE GOLDMAN SACHS (who run the gov) able to borrow money from the FED window. 550 million only SEC? Give me a break! What no criminal prosecution?

They should have just kept the banks separate as FDIC insures all bank deposits. That is the main reason why glass steagall was important to remain intact. BUT you know what US wanted the join all these alliances for globalization and lost their sovereign power of keeping international banks separate.

You can blame globalization for part of the deregulation then. But anyway if they deregulated that to be part of the world alliances Peter Schiff makes the point of REMOVE FDIC insurance.

So what would happen after gov remove the insurance. IF YOU WERE SMART: Shop around instead of just putting money in any old bank just for interest. Ok fine your not smart and you dont have time to research, next smart thing to do is diversify your banks instead of just one.

DO you know what this will do? MANY banks will pop up instead of just monopolies like Bank of America, Chase, CITI.

NO more too big to fail. BUT what do they do: FDIC.
FINE too big to fail all over the place idiots at Washington. And idiots think fdic is free, its paid with tax/print money again.

There should really be absolutely no fractional reserve banking in the first place. IT is in reality FRAUD. The whole banking system is essentially a FRAUD anyway.
10 to 1 ratio: 10x money supply max
they went to 100 to 1 ratio: extreme 100x money supply max

Its like blowing a balloon the bigger it gets the bigger the damage. it should be
1 to 1 ratio: if you do not want bubbles.

There should be no other regulation on banking besides 1:1 ratio no fractional reserve ponzi scheme money system that is the FED.
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Old 07-17-2010, 06:35 PM
 
1,013 posts, read 734,707 times
Reputation: 483
Quote:
Yep. I don't like him. I didn't vote for him because I didn't see him as being enough of a change, and I didn't agree with all this "HOPE" nonsense he built his campaign on: I want facts and results, not "hope." Hope is what I get when I buy a lottery ticket; results are what I get when I take a paycheck home.

It's a shame no one gave us a candidate that was worth anything this time around.
I agree with you on this point. The only one I liked was RON PAUL for the GOP side and no one really from the democratic side. It's not about the parties, its about who you believe is sincere and makes sense.

Quote:
You say that it's not crap, and then admit that the economic woes we are facing are the Bush administration's fault. If the Bush administration hadn't screwed everything up - with the inferred blessing of his constituency - then would any of this be an issue? No! Look, I know you probably bristle when you hear someone "blame Bush" but it's not like I'm just writing everything off to him. We could have focused on healthcare - which is a big freaking issue in this country - if we hadn't lived through eight years of slash-and-burn economics where the financial sector had it's cake, ate it too, and then went after the rest of the country's cake as well!

Now we have to slog through the resolution of all the social problems we have as a nation with an empty wallet, too. Super.

Obama inherited the failures of an administration (one of the worst ones we've ever had), and concurrent to their failures (economy, war), he was also handed many other social problems that had been ignored by multiple administrations going back generations in some cases, all of which are and were getting to a crisis point: education and healthcare being two of the chief issues. He hasn't handled any of the above effectively, but at least he isn't actively detrimental to America like the Bush Administration was, not like that's anything virtuous.
Yep pretty much Bush brought us destruction in our debts for the iraq war.

Education: main problem union workers for public work = big no no, if they don't like it go join private schools please. Public work suppose to be less pay not more but in exchange you get stable job not the other way around. Less administrators please, less waste and corruption, easier to fire bad teachers, stop subsidizing book industry(use internet for info instead, its the 21st cent my god).

Healthcare: protect doctors from being sued from idiot money chasers so they dont need to buy so much insurance, make apprenticeship instead of forcing everyone to go to med school for 8+ years and cost being so high.
Remove the corrupt FDA, passing bad drugs as good and good drugs as bad. Let people get into test trials much much easier or even pay to get into the trials so that they can have some hope or choice to speed up and make it cheaper for drugs.
Stop subsidizing the big drug industries by using the corrupt FDA to pass bad drugs.

Anyway some solutions.
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