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I completely disagree with you. H1B visas aren't about bringing the best and brightest from India or China to the US. They are specifically about bringing in lower-cost employees to do jobs that Americans would want more money to do. The employees brought over are inevitably offered less money than the true market value for their position. But these folks immediately accept the offers because they want to live and work in the US. In many cases they want badly for their children to be born, live and to be educated in the US and the general opportunity to set roots here because the standard of living is so much better. Sure the VISAs are limited in duration, but they still enable the recipients to get a foot in the door to the US.
Despite the propaganda published by Executives, politicians, and leaders in India and China - there is no shortage of smart nor highly-skilled employees in the US. There may be shortages in the future for particular professions because of the H1B Visas and all the outsourcing also going on, but right now this is just a red herring argument to distract from the truth. The truth is that these folks are just paid less.
If you want to argue how although this is true, the H1B's and outsourcing trends are still good for the US, well that's another story. But please don't distract from the singular truth which is that businesses are just short-sightedly seeking to get more bang for their buck.
Yeledaf, TheHarvester, I appreciate your replies and opinions on this topic. I'm always looking for different points of view and also I find myself seeking the truth for topics like these. What I believe or think I know today, I understand is just a snapshot in time.
Reading this study actually confirmed what I already know both working full-time in management at a Global top 10 technology company AND also because my spouse does recruiting research for the technology and medical science industries. We've both been at these occupations for many years and the trends and observations are well founded via actual professional experience not just what we've read.
Second, I perceive some potential confusion about who/what makes up the middle class in the United States. Granted, mileage varies about the definition (anyone can see this via a quick Google search) but my perception is that the middle class is more affected by white collar and skilled labor h1B's and outsourcing than by illegal immigration trends. My reasoning is that illegal immigrants typically take working-class jobs, not what I would consider middle-class jobs. I thus feel that if one is really concerned about the disappearing middle class in the US, then focus should shift to the applicable issues. The low or no-skill jobs that illegal immigrants are taking and supressing wages for just dont seem as important to "protect" as the ones which net more money, require more education, and which result in more taxes (per household) to fund government services.
Yeledaf, TheHarvester, I appreciate your replies and opinions on this topic. I'm always looking for different points of view and also I find myself seeking the truth for topics like these. What I believe or think I know today, I understand is just a snapshot in time.
Reading this study actually confirmed what I already know both working full-time in management at a Global top 10 technology company AND also because my spouse does recruiting research for the technology and medical science industries. We've both been at these occupations for many years and the trends and observations are well founded via actual professional experience not just what we've read.
Second, I perceive some potential confusion about who/what makes up the middle class in the United States. Granted, mileage varies about the definition (anyone can see this via a quick Google search) but my perception is that the middle class is more affected by white collar and skilled labor h1B's and outsourcing than by illegal immigration trends. My reasoning is that illegal immigrants typically take working-class jobs, not what I would consider middle-class jobs. I thus feel that if one is really concerned about the disappearing middle class in the US, then focus should shift to the applicable issues. The low or no-skill jobs that illegal immigrants are taking and supressing wages for just dont seem as important to "protect" as the ones which net more money, require more education, and which result in more taxes (per household) to fund government services.
My husband used to make $ 22.00 an hour in his construction job. Cant find that anymore, unless you are higher up but even 22 isnt much today. Thats what is killing the middle class, more and more jobs are paying less because they can. I never considered what my husband did and non skilled. I couldnt do it.
One thing I know for sure is that illegal immigrants aren't affecting the IT/technology, educational, engineering, scientific or research, political, social, nor any medical occupations I know of.
Instead the effect is focused upon jobs where english language fluency is of secondary or complete non-importance and workers don't really need to have a resume of previous experience or successes to hit the ground running.
Why people are focused upon this issue thus bewilders me completely. If you don't invest in education of some kind, or at least invest significant time practicing to obtain a job, why the heck is an applicable profession important to "protect"? Why not give what is obviously the bottom rung of any society the chance to do these jobs whatever their citizenship may be? Lastly, do people really consider those jobs middle class?!
I'm all for immigration reform so that the US government isn't wasting tax money supporting non-tax paying citizens, but I hardly see the need to build border walls nor to turn this into some major political issue to distract from others. It's an issue which needs addressing... but doesn't it make more sense to raise awareness of the skilled-labor positions for which US citizens are being passed up for due to published nonsense and shortsighted corporate penny-pinching? These are the jobs that people invest time and energy to obtain, these are the ones which ultimately lead to innovation.
I understand that h1b visa recipients are grateful for what they obtained, and that the likes of Google, Microsoft, and Microsoft have executive representation calling for more to be allowed. Realistically though, is this good for our economy? I don't think so. Regardless of how bad our educational system in the US may be (and it isn't bad at all by the way - everyone keeps harping on our science and math capabilities but our science and math majors are quite bright), by not hiring from within you're just going to discourage more and more US students from pursuing education and professions focused upon these areas.
Where does Ron Paul stand for all this? ... After listening to him speak, I get the feeling like he believes that corporate america can police itself and everything will work out all right. Do I agree with that? Not really - to some degree I understand his point of view (he has a ton of examples of government failings when it tried to get involved in regulatory activities), but to another I have no doubt that corporate structure itself encourages executives to hide behind the corporate brand and thus to avoid accountability for decisions they make in support of personal greed and the insatiable search for profits. The government thus needs to ensure that the best interests of the country and its citizens are represented - I haven't yet seen to my own satisfaction that global or even national corporations will do this on their own. H1B visas and outsourcing are two specific areas that corporations world-wide are moving the wrong direction in - very quickly, and all together and irreversibly so if awareness isn't increased and action taken. The result is that these corporations are making money but also that we're cheating current american workers (and future american workers) out of jobs. That is not cool folks.
One thing I know for sure is that illegal immigrants aren't affecting the IT/technology, educational, engineering, scientific or research, political, social, nor any medical occupations I know of.
Instead the effect is focused upon jobs where english language fluency is of secondary or complete non-importance and workers don't really need to have a resume of previous experience or successes to hit the ground running.
Why people are focused upon this issue thus bewilders me completely. If you don't invest in education of some kind, or at least invest significant time practicing to obtain a job, why the heck is an applicable profession important to "protect"? Why not give what is obviously the bottom rung of any society the chance to do these jobs whatever their citizenship may be? Lastly, do people really consider those jobs middle class?!
I'm all for immigration reform so that the US government isn't wasting tax money supporting non-tax paying citizens, but I hardly see the need to build border walls nor to turn this into some major political issue to distract from others. It's an issue which needs addressing... but doesn't it make more sense to raise awareness of the skilled-labor positions for which US citizens are being passed up for due to published nonsense and shortsighted corporate penny-pinching? These are the jobs that people invest time and energy to obtain, these are the ones which ultimately lead to innovation.
I understand that h1b visa recipients are grateful for what they obtained, and that the likes of Google, Microsoft, and Microsoft have executive representation calling for more to be allowed. Realistically though, is this good for our economy? I don't think so. Regardless of how bad our educational system in the US may be (and it isn't bad at all by the way - everyone keeps harping on our science and math capabilities but our science and math majors are quite bright), by not hiring from within you're just going to discourage more and more US students from pursuing education and professions focused upon these areas.
Where does Ron Paul stand for all this... After listening to him speak, I get the feeling like he believes that corporate america can police itself and everything will work out all right. Do I agree with that? Not really - to some degree I understand his point of view (he has a ton of examples of government failings when it tried to get involved in regulatory activities), but to another I have no doubt that corporate structure itself encourages executives to hide behind the corporate brand and thus to avoid accountability for decisions they make in support of personal greed and the insatiable search for profits. The government thus needs to ensure that the best interests of the country and its citizens are represented - I haven't yet seen to my own satisfaction that global or even national corporations will do this on their own. H1B visas and outsourcing are two specific areas that corporations world-wide are moving the wrong direction in - very quickly, and all together and irreversibly so if awareness isn't increased and action taken. The result is that these corporations are making money but also that we're cheating currently american workers (and future american workers) out of jobs. That is not cool folks.
There is a guy on another forum that is a software engineer that works in California, he is always saying how many people from india and china that are here overstaying there visas are working in the IT sector, and posted statistics to back it up. So far Ron Paul has my vote.
In today’s testimony before the house, Fed Chairman Bernanke was questioned by Representative Ron Paul in what was a remarkable exchange. Remarkable for how straightforward, lucid, and anti-statist the question was. In his questioning, Ron Paul stated:
“I want to follow up on the discussion about moral hazard. I think we have a very narrow understanding about what moral hazard really is. Because I think moral hazard begins at the very moment that we create artificially low interest rates which we constantly do. And this is the reason people make mistakes. It isn’t because human nature causes us to make all these mistakes, but there is a normal reaction when interest rates are low that there will be overinvestment and malinvestment, excessive debt, and then there are consequences from this. My question is going to be around the subject of how can it ever be morally justifiable to deliberately depreciate the value of our currency?â€
His statements continued (about how much oil, gold, wheat, corn, etc. has gone up since the rate decrease) but the heart of his question was the following moral question: ...consciously depreciating the value of the USD has winners and losers (Wall Street/banks/the rich and everyone else), Mr. Bernanke. How do you constantly choose Wall Street over the rest of America?
You will not be surprised to know that B-52 Ben didn’t answer the question. He couldn’t answer the question (at least truthfully). Was he going to say that the Federal Reserve is a quasi-private institution whose prime directive is to cartelize and protect the profits of the banking industry? Was he going to say that the only policy the Fed knows is based on the flawed Keynesian logic that wealth can be created out of thin air via printing presses? Of course not.
The extensive internet discussions have not translated into any significant support so far. Based upon the pervasive internet usage commonly found today, it would seem to indicate voters have been informed about him, and decided to support other candidates.
The extensive internet discussions have not translated into any significant support so far. Based upon the pervasive internet usage commonly found today, it would seem to indicate voters have been informed about him, and decided to support other candidates.
Well I have to wonder about this myself as I see John McCain looking more like the republican version of Mike Gravel, where people softly chuckle and roll their eyes before he takes the stage.
I have to look at the raw numbers of various straw poll results where the people had to physically show up in order to vote, giving a much better indication of support than any online or phone polls. In this case, it would seem to show that there is indeed much more support for Ron Paul than is published in many of the more mainstream outlets.
I think the early primaries will far more telling than anything. If in fact Ron Paul does have a larger amount of support than given by mainstream polling (10% or greater) then it will show how worthless and inaccurate the standard polling procedures actually are. Another shot in the foot for the mainstream media.
This Buckeye wont vote at all unless its for Ron Paul. None of the other candidates have anything remotely credible to say to me. They ignore everything Paul addresses. I do not consider none of the others validate candidates. I consider them placeholder fakes. Stooges put in by lobbyists for globalisation. I want a grass roots return to our own nation and not global politics. I dont want this NWO bull crap anymore. It is hurting our country and many other countries badly. Its a corporate agenda fed to the masses and passed off as humanitarian policy. I want Ron Paul to return us back to being our own countyr and quit taking our jobs away, quit neglecting our cities, quit sticking our nose in world business, quit arming everyone and their mother, quit giving away our land to some world institution, quit trying to turn us in a police state, quit infringing in to people's private lives and spying, quit undermining our sovereignty. We will win. watch and see. We will go to the ends.
I agree with TnHilltopper. When the primaries start that will tell how much staying power Paul has. I sent in my monetary donation to Paul last Friday. Oct. 1st all candidates must report fund raising figures for the third quarter. Prediction: look for Paul to be in the top three republican fund raisers.
SALteacher, if you want a good chuckle, check out this bit from Mackinac Island where Rudy Giuliani tries to duck being surrounded by Ron Paul supporters on the ferry ride back. Poor ole dog...
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Ron Paul stumps Ben Bernake... not surprising.
