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Old 09-10-2011, 06:30 PM
 
4,749 posts, read 3,596,575 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freightshaker View Post
Ron Paul is very good on economic issues, it's just the rest of what he believes that's a bit over the top.
I think it's the other way around. I think Ron Paul has more appeal on his social issues and his stance against reckless nation-building. It's his economic issues that are questionable. He *is* right that the U.S. has a debt binge problem but he's wrong about the solution.

The US debt problem is like a high-altitude aircraft stall. We can bring the plane down safely through gradual correction. Ron Paul's approach is akin to pushing the nose straight down into a dive, as if that's the only way to land the thing.
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Old 09-10-2011, 06:47 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
66,154 posts, read 33,571,533 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freightshaker View Post
Ron Paul is very good on economic issues, it's just the rest of what he believes that's a bit over the top.


Like what?

Article 1 Section 8?




You may be addicted to the Progressive government, micromanage control.
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Old 09-10-2011, 08:08 PM
 
Location: New Jersey
294 posts, read 607,367 times
Reputation: 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by chickenfriedbananas View Post
Don't have time to put together much of a response but the short of it is, taxes aren't that bad; they control consumption at least. Lowering taxes on gas would give us cheaper gas but we'd quickly drive up the cost due to higher demand. That's why all of this drill, baby, drill talk is nonsense. We need new technology that finds away to maximize resource usage efficiency. I don't have the brains to know how to do that but I'm guessing we have people here who do -- and if we don't do it, the Chinese or someone else certainly will.

As for Hugo, he cannot keep giving away gasoline. They'll eventually run into the same problem that the U.S. has, which is consuming far more than it has in resources. There was a time when the US oil supply was mostly sufficient for its economic needs - not anymore. And Venezuela will get there. The thing that gives Chavez the ability to give the US and his globalist opponents the finger is his energy independence, which is in a state of decline. He knows it. He might be a blowhard but he ain't dumb. Either they raise prices by a few cents per gallon every year or so, or they end up rationing gas use. Either isn't really desirable but raising the price is probably the better of his two choices.

Well, in the meantime such technology does not exist. Therefore, you have to make do with what you've got. And this how most people in politics are thinking.

As far as Hugo is concerned. He is not worry about peak oil....believe on that one. In Faja de Orinoco, the proven reserves are 172 billion barrels....that's just one field. For Chavez to raise the price of oil, is like Chine denying employment to its people.....it is like a molotov cocktail waiting to be thrown out.
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Old 09-11-2011, 12:53 AM
 
Location: Chicago
865 posts, read 572,060 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chickenfriedbananas View Post
I think it's the other way around. I think Ron Paul has more appeal on his social issues and his stance against reckless nation-building. It's his economic issues that are questionable. He *is* right that the U.S. has a debt binge problem but he's wrong about the solution.

The US debt problem is like a high-altitude aircraft stall. We can bring the plane down safely through gradual correction. Ron Paul's approach is akin to pushing the nose straight down into a dive, as if that's the only way to land the thing.

Not really, if you read his economic proposals, none of them are drastic, all of them are gradual. Unless you confuse what he thinks is true to what he actually intends on doing. This is why the extremists don't like him/hesitate to support him, they want him to decentralize government all together instantly, and he is not going to dictate any such changes without the natural progression from the markets and the support of the people. Hence why he says that he is not a dictator.
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Old 09-12-2011, 09:07 AM
 
51,640 posts, read 41,606,703 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sirachabang View Post
It would seem that many people in this topic missed the point. The point being that it wasn't the price of gasoline that changed over time. The point is that it was the completely fiat dollar which has become close to worthless since they removed silver and gold backing from the currency.
As long as you assume that oil is renewable and demand hasn't been increasing over the last 70+ years then yes.

There are multiple effects going on here though.
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Old 09-12-2011, 09:23 AM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,715 posts, read 11,523,903 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sirachabang View Post
It would seem that many people in this topic missed the point. The point being that it wasn't the price of gasoline that changed over time. The point is that it was the completely fiat dollar which has become close to worthless since they removed silver and gold backing from the currency.
So all we needed to do is hold the money supply constant while the population grew. That would have brought down prices all right -- through deflation.

If you complain about fiat money also note that the Great Depression occurred when the U.S. was on the gold standard and many boom and bust cycles occurred when on the gold standard. I'd hate for the price of my currency to change because the materials used in dentistry or electronics changed.

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Old 09-12-2011, 11:36 AM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,715 posts, read 11,523,903 times
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Adding to post #67:
Sylvia Nasar's timely op-ed on Yale economist Irving Fisher (February 27, 1867 – April 29, 1947):
Quote:
By the Panic of 1907, Fisher had concluded that most extreme fluctuations in economic activity resulted from monetary disturbances. He had identified too much money as the source of inflationary booms, too little as the source of deflationary depressions.

By tracing seemingly unrelated economic pathologies to a single variable, money, he had identified a potential cure: Stabilize the value of money -- that is, avoid inflation or deflation -- and so stabilize economic activity. This was a cure that government, which issues money and determines its value, could dispense. link
But as the right-wing "knows," it's "fiat money" that's the problem.
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Old 10-07-2011, 08:10 AM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
66,154 posts, read 33,571,533 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
Adding to post #67:
Sylvia Nasar's timely op-ed on Yale economist Irving Fisher (February 27, 1867 – April 29, 1947):
But as the right-wing "knows," it's "fiat money" that's the problem.


Before the fed, depressions and recessions were short lived. They bottomed out and the recovery started.

Then in the 30's the spending and over regulations, just like now created another recession that led into a depression, but instead of allowing it to bottom out and all the governments fatcat buddies facing hard times and a loss of their wealth, the fed props up the government and chooses the businesses that will survive, and you get 10-20 year recessions that tip to depression levels, never allowing it to bottom out.

Losing 2 to 3 years of your life worrying, compared to 10-20 years of worrying??


Right now, our dollar has an estimated .4¢ - .5¢ buying power.
So, things really cost the same, only the paper that is printed has inflated, to something it is not. One big illusion, created by the Fed, to fool the uneducated public.
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Old 10-07-2011, 08:27 AM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,715 posts, read 11,523,903 times
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1837-1843 isn't short lived.

1869-1871

Then there were many short-lived depressions.

The Depression that started in 1929 and lived through the 30's was not caused by spending and over regulations. At the time, there were almost no financial regulations. One could by $100,000 worth of stock with $10,000 cash. The crash of '29 was caused by speculation.

The banks were also not regulated and had no insurance. Bank runs were common.

We addressed that situation with financial regulations that worked quite well for 70 years, until they were deregulated again.
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Old 10-07-2011, 08:37 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
34,588 posts, read 33,579,817 times
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Isn't the gasoline tax (all of them) higher than a dime? In my state, the gasoline tax is 21.4 cents per gallon plus 1.4 percent special petroleum fee (whatever that is) and that doesn't include federal tax which I think is 18 cents.
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