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View Poll Results: Who won the debate in your honest opinion?...
Michelle Bachmann 6 9.23%
Herman Cain 3 4.62%
Newt Gingrich 3 4.62%
Jon Huntsman 4 6.15%
Ron Paul 25 38.46%
Rick Perry 4 6.15%
Mitt Romney 18 27.69%
Rick Santorum 2 3.08%
Voters: 65. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-13-2011, 10:04 PM
 
3,335 posts, read 2,248,669 times
Reputation: 565

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Quote:
Originally Posted by emilybh View Post
He isn't wacky at all if you listen to what he says and then follow it up with a little research. He's a storehouse of knowledge and experience. Or you can keep letting the MSM tell you he's wacky and take THEIR word for it. If I were you though, I'd trust my own fact finding and verifying over the MSM's.

Hold it, emily. Do you think 'we' aren't concluding our evaluation of Paul ...on our own? Emily, I don't listen to any of the Media TV 'hired goobers'....and can tell dixiegirl is sharp enough to ''think for her self....by her self.

People with brains...don't look for 'others' to tell them what is sensible.

No Offense Em....but I SERIOUSLY AM BEGINNING TO BELIEVE...
you are the one letting the MSM or some others...tell you how to 'think' and vote.

And mr. Paul is a 'little Wacky' as many have said.
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Old 09-13-2011, 10:18 PM
 
Location: Austin, TX
7,177 posts, read 16,219,165 times
Reputation: 3463
I thought RP looked so sad when Santorum and the audience was chastising him for echoing the terrorists reasoning for 9/11. Like RP felt like he blew the race.

I just wanted to tell him, buck up! No one is going to care what you say about 9/11. Your supporters back you on it, and the others aren't even paying attention.

For any other candidate - that statement on 9/11 being retribution for US policies would have sunk them. For Ron Paul, it won't make a dent.
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Old 09-13-2011, 10:23 PM
 
8,758 posts, read 8,833,192 times
Reputation: 1428
Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCobb View Post
From listening to Republic rhetoric on this issue, I think it's clear they want to end this enormously popular earned benefits program. It concerns me because they have 30 years to steal the money I am paying into this program from me. The Republics aren't scaring the seniors. They are assuring the seniors that they will get what they have coming to them, but they are worrying us "mid career" folks as Perry refers to us.

When I first heard about this "crisis", I thought -- ok. This seems to be a real problem. I guess I need to start looking at what the solutions are and start getting used to the idea of reduced benefits. After carefully examining the non biased sources, however, I see -- nope. There is no crisis at all -- not even close. If the absolute worst came to worst, I will get around 75 percent of benefits. 75 percent is a lot better than 0 percent. However, even this won't come to pass because law makers have 30 years to do something as simple as raise the retirement age two years, which will make the program sustainable at 100 percent payouts.

It's crap like this that makes me deeply distrustful of Republics. What they say sounds reasonable, but it almost always crumbles when held up to scrutiny.
I agree with some of your points. The main problem with SS is that it has been used for everything but what it was intended for. The program itself is based on scientific actuarial tables just like the life insurance and investment companies use. It has also been modified and adjusted through the years. The retirement age has already been changed a few times for those born a later. This program provides not only for retirees but for families when one spouse dies until the children reach age 18 and for widows again at age 60. Also, for those who become disabled or for those who pay in, their disabled children. Those are important benefits for famlies in need. The program just needs revamping to be sure it pays through the years and it needs protection under the law from being robbed.

I am one of those that has paid a lot of money into SS and have quite a few years to get it back, but not enough years that I can afford to lose it either. However, if they want to give me what I have paid in plus interest and let me out now...I wil gladly take it and do my own investing.
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Old 09-13-2011, 11:49 PM
 
8,758 posts, read 8,833,192 times
Reputation: 1428
Quote:
Originally Posted by emilybh View Post
But he received mediocre comments. That article was like all the other MSM articles and graphs we've seen. They all make them look like Romney and Perry are front-runners but when you look at the ACTUAL CONTENT you see it is all a BIG DECEPTION. The MSNBC poll after that debate had Ron Paul with over 55% of the voters saying he was the winner and the graph showed Perry and Romney an eighth of millimeter away (but the actual numbers showed each of them had only 1/4 of what Ron Paul had.

The big TIME magazine front page and article at the beginning of the year showed Perry and Romney's faces on top but if you looked at the pie chart, Ron Paul had more expected support than all of the rest of the candidates COMBINED!

So the "grading" in this article is pretty worthless if you ask me.

I am sure we all see what we want to see in the candidates we prefer. We all think they are being shortchanged or being misrepresented or not getting their fair share of questions in debates and on and on. If you believe that Ron Paul has the support that the online polls and that sort of thing shows, then he would obviously win when it comes time to vote...correct? But he doesn't, because the online polls have been manipulated.
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Old 09-14-2011, 12:00 AM
 
8,758 posts, read 8,833,192 times
Reputation: 1428
Quote:
Originally Posted by emilybh View Post
He isn't wacky at all if you listen to what he says and then follow it up with a little research. He's a storehouse of knowledge and experience. Or you can keep letting the MSM tell you he's wacky and take THEIR word for it. If I were you though, I'd trust my own fact finding and verifying over the MSM's.

I have known many Ron Paul supporters over the years and I have read many, many links they have provided to 'prove' he is not a little out there. On some issues, he is more than likely right on target with what the problem is. However, it is what he usually wants to do to correct the problem that doesn't work so well. There are other issues where he just totally loses rational thinking people. That's the wacky part.

His son Rand Paul lives here in my city, I know him too. He is also odd, but not nearly as odd as his father. I am not sure if he tries to hide it to some degree or he just isn't quite as off the beaten path. Maybe eventually, he will run for president. Although, I am still not sure how he won the senate seat.
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Old 09-14-2011, 07:37 AM
 
2,721 posts, read 3,732,030 times
Reputation: 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by dixiegirl7 View Post
I have known many Ron Paul supporters over the years and I have read many, many links they have provided to 'prove' he is not a little out there. On some issues, he is more than likely right on target with what the problem is. However, it is what he usually wants to do to correct the problem that doesn't work so well. There are other issues where he just totally loses rational thinking people. That's the wacky part.

His son Rand Paul lives here in my city, I know him too. He is also odd, but not nearly as odd as his father. I am not sure if he tries to hide it to some degree or he just isn't quite as off the beaten path. Maybe eventually, he will run for president. Although, I am still not sure how he won the senate seat.
What specifically is Ron Paul "out there" on?

Let me clear up some misconceptions about him first:

1. He is NOT for legalizing drugs. He is for allowing this issue to be decided by the states. This is a states rights stance.

2. He is pro-life. And is for a "sanctity of life" bill which defines life to begin at conception.

3. He is NOT for amnesty for illegal immigrants. He believes we need to control and monitor our border in order to reduce the flow of illegals into this country.

4. He is for reducing inflation through restoring sound monetary policy. Inflation is a hidden tax on the poor that harms society. He believes our currency needs to be backed up by something in order to have true value and slow inflation.

5. He wants to audit the federal reserve. To see where our money is going...

6. He wants to reduce taxes, he would like to get rid of the federal income tax. 40% of our governments revenue comes from fees not related to the federal income tax. With his proposed cuts to departments, and the fees coming in, our government would have enough revenue to function on a federal level.

7. He is in favor of national defense. Ron Paul is in favor of upholding our national defense. There is a big difference between defense and war-mongering across the globe. He wants to bring out troops home (especially ones in Japan and Germany where we have had forces stationed there since WWII). He is the most popular candidate among military personnel.

8. He does NOT blame America for 9/11. This is the biggest misconception of all about him. He is simply repeating what the terrorist groups said was there motive for attacking. If we don't understand motive, how can we understand how to prevent an attack in the future? He is tired of people (like Rick Santorum) lying to the American people about why we were attacked.
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Old 09-14-2011, 07:59 AM
 
Location: Tampa Florida
22,243 posts, read 15,239,270 times
Reputation: 4583
I am pretty sure Rollins is glad he jumped off the Bachmann train wreck in time.
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Old 09-14-2011, 08:39 AM
 
Location: SC
9,038 posts, read 14,263,022 times
Reputation: 3488
Quote:
Originally Posted by dixiegirl7 View Post
I have known many Ron Paul supporters over the years and I have read many, many links they have provided to 'prove' he is not a little out there. On some issues, he is more than likely right on target with what the problem is. However, it is what he usually wants to do to correct the problem that doesn't work so well. There are other issues where he just totally loses rational thinking people. That's the wacky part.

His son Rand Paul lives here in my city, I know him too. He is also odd, but not nearly as odd as his father. I am not sure if he tries to hide it to some degree or he just isn't quite as off the beaten path. Maybe eventually, he will run for president. Although, I am still not sure how he won the senate seat.
Well according to Senator Jim DeMint, Rand Paul, Marco Rubio and others were examples of "unelectable" candidates who got elected. He also said that people should vote on principle NOT by who the MSM tells them is "electable". Obviously those who voted for these candidates voted their conscience and if they got elected, so can Ron Paul.
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Old 09-14-2011, 09:57 AM
 
Location: Northern CA
12,770 posts, read 9,788,964 times
Reputation: 4242
Quote:
Originally Posted by emilybh View Post
Well according to Senator Jim DeMint, Rand Paul, Marco Rubio and others were examples of "unelectable" candidates who got elected. He also said that people should vote on principle NOT by who the MSM tells them is "electable". Obviously those who voted for these candidates voted their conscience and if they got elected, so can Ron Paul.
Statement of Principles
Campaign For Liberty

Our stances on other issues can be deduced from these general principles.

Our country is ailing. That is the bad news. The good news is that the remedy is so simple and attractive: a return to the principles our Founders taught us. Respect for the Constitution, the rule of law, individual liberty, sound money, and a noninterventionist foreign policy constitute the foundation of the Campaign for Liberty.

Ron Paul 2012
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Old 09-14-2011, 10:27 AM
 
Location: Norman, OK
3,479 posts, read 6,324,562 times
Reputation: 1196
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyclone8570 View Post
1. He is NOT for legalizing drugs. He is for allowing this issue to be decided by the states. This is a states rights stance.
Not quite. He believes that its a states right issue to legalize marijuana. That actually is not the same as saying that a state should have the right to outlaw it. In fact, that would be completely contradictory to liberty aspect of his platform.

Quote:
2. He is pro-life. And is for a "sanctity of life" bill which defines life to begin at conception.
That's fine, but he still doesn't support ending abortions. He just thinks states should make the decisions. From his own website:

Quote:
Immediately saving lives by effectively repealing Roe v. Wade and preventing activist judges from interfering with state decisions on life by removing abortion from federal court jurisdiction through legislation modeled after his “We the People Act.”
So basically, if all 50 states were to pass laws legalizing abortion, he would have no problem with it.

Quote:
4. He is for reducing inflation through restoring sound monetary policy. Inflation is a hidden tax on the poor that harms society. He believes our currency needs to be backed up by something in order to have true value and slow inflation.

5. He wants to audit the federal reserve. To see where our money is going...
He just doesn't want to audit them - he wants the Fed ended. Again, from his website (under the title 'End the Fed'):

Quote:
Ultimately, he will lead the charge to end the dishonest, immoral, and unconstitutional Federal Reserve System, enabling America to take a giant step toward economic security, financial responsibility, and lasting prosperity.
That indeed is 'out there.'

Quote:
6. He wants to reduce taxes, he would like to get rid of the federal income tax. 40% of our governments revenue comes from fees not related to the federal income tax. With his proposed cuts to departments, and the fees coming in, our government would have enough revenue to function on a federal level.
This is indeed 'out there' also. End ALL personal income taxes but then state that he supports the Fair Tax? With no federal revenue from taxes, states would make up the difference by charging more in local sales and other state income taxes. Again, very out there.

Quote:
8. He does NOT blame America for 9/11. This is the biggest misconception of all about him. He is simply repeating what the terrorist groups said was there motive for attacking. If we don't understand motive, how can we understand how to prevent an attack in the future? He is tired of people (like Rick Santorum) lying to the American people about why we were attacked.
I think his answer on this was just bad at the debate. It sunk him IMO.
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