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THIS economy is this BAD because of obama. That's a fact. There is no investing because there is uncertainty due to the $15 trillion of debt...and the downgrading of our credit rating..once again...thanks to obama and the democrats for spending us to the point where that happened....pssst...never happened before.
Actually, Obama inherited multiple wars in the middle east that wreaked havoc on our national debt. An economy that hadn't yet collapsed, but was on the way there large in part to the war. And a housing bubble that was already years in the making before he even declared his candidacy.
If you dispute that, you dispute truth and fact. If you dispute truth and fact, you shouldn't say anything at all since it isn't important or relevant. Not saying you aren't entitled to your opinion or the right to speak. But if you're going to exercise that right, exercise it with dignity and intelligence vs. what you believe simply because you believe it and want to be right in believing it.
The stimulus by the way, since you seem to think that was a direct cause and effect for the current state of the economy - was still not as expensive as the war.
You also don't pass a stimulus to fix an economy that isn't already broken. So unless Obama ruined the economy in the four months prior to that somehow, you're incorrect and point blank wrong. That's common sense and logical thinking.
Actually, Obama inherited multiple wars in the middle east that wreaked havoc on our national debt. An economy that hadn't yet collapsed, but was on the way there large in part to the war. And a housing bubble that was already years in the making before he even declared his candidacy.
If you dispute that, you dispute truth and fact. If you dispute truth and fact, you shouldn't say anything at all since it isn't important or relevant. Not saying you aren't entitled to your opinion or the right to speak. But if you're going to exercise that right, exercise it with dignity and intelligence vs. what you believe simply because you believe it and want to be right in believing it.
The stimulus by the way, since you seem to think that was a direct cause and effect for the current state of the economy - was still not as expensive as the war.
You also don't pass a stimulus to fix an economy that isn't already broken. So unless Obama ruined the economy in the four months prior to that somehow, you're incorrect and point blank wrong. That's common sense and logical thinking.
Obama inherited a $7.5 trillion debt and turned it into $15 trillion in 3 years. Now if you want to blame the wars..go ahead. But the FACTS are that Iraq and Afghanistan were FULL BLOWN wars during the Bush administration and that debt didn't balloon by $7.5 trillion in 3 years. In fact...it took Bush 7 years to run up $7.5 trillion!! The FACT is that the war in Iraq was winding down when obama came into power.
The FACTS are that the Fannie & Freddie debacle...which is the very basis for the economic collapse we are witnessing now... was driven by democrats...and obama was a part of congress during that time.
The FACT is that the obama adminstration handed out a $750 billion bailout to banks and insurance firms who in turn paid CEO's and other corporate officers BONUSES!! That is obama's fault because there was never a stipulation attached to the money on how it was to be spent.
The FACT is that in a rush to apease the tree huggers obama guaranteed a $550 MILLION loan to solyndra...tax payer money..and they almost immediately declared bankruptcy...and the bank accounts of the corporate officers were filled with our $$...and no way to retrieve it.
The FACT is that obama is an inept, clueless buffoon, who had no business getting elected for a serious job that he was not qualified for. That isn't my opinion...that is a FACT that Obama himself has proven over a 3 year period. And he is there because stupid Americans decided that they wanted to make history in the 2008 election, and we are now saddled with a critical situation that threatens to change our lives forever.
And why? Because he is NOT a leader. He is an ideologue who believes in socialism....the EURO MODEL of governence... he has gone on a path to change the direction of the United States and it doesn't matter to him that the EURO model is proven to not work. In fact..that FACT is being played out right before our eyes every day.....and STILL he pursues a path of failure.
So don't tell ME that there aren't FACTS that are the basis of my opinions....unless you are blind, they are staring us in the face and have been for 3 years now. Deny that all you like...that doesn't change the FACTS.
He is a hypocrite because he is advocate an increase in tax on ordinary income, yet he pay himself most of them in the form of dividend.
There is nothing in the law said that you cannot write a check to the US Treasury. He is feel to do that if he think he is not being tax enough. Why isn't he is doing that. Put his money where his mouth is.
You still haven't answer my question: If you have a job, do you think it is fair for your employer taking some of your pay and give it to those who pay less than you?
Actually, Buffett proposed an increase in ALL income on the wealthy.
From Buffett's NYT Op-Ed:
Quote:
I would leave rates for 99.7 percent of taxpayers unchanged and continue the current 2-percentage-point reduction in the employee contribution to the payroll tax. This cut helps the poor and the middle class, who need every break they can get.
But for those making more than $1 million — there were 236,883 such households in 2009 — I would raise rates immediately on taxable income in excess of $1 million, including, of course, dividends and capital gains. And for those who make $10 million or more — there were 8,274 in 2009 — I would suggest an additional increase in rate.
Supporting policies that are to your personal financial disadvantage isn’t hypocrisy — it’s civic virtue!
On you question, my employer isn't taking some of my pay and giving it to the less fortunate -- that's how you frame what taxes are but that's a warped way of looking at the world.
The FACT is that the obama adminstration handed out a $750 billion bailout to banks and insurance firms who in turn paid CEO's and other corporate officers BONUSES!! That is obama's fault because there was never a stipulation attached to the money on how it was to be spent.
Ahem. TARP was passed during the Bush Administration, not the Obama Administration. Once again, what you think are facts are fallacies. 'I'd Approve TARP Again': George W. Bush
Quote:
Former President George Bush told NBC News in an interview airing Monday that he believes TARP funds used to bail out Wall Street banks in 2008 "saved the economy" and that he would “absolutely” do it again today, if presented with the same problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tall_Rep
The FACT is that in a rush to apease the tree huggers obama guaranteed a $550 MILLION loan to solyndra...tax payer money..and they almost immediately declared bankruptcy...and the bank accounts of the corporate officers were filled with our $$...and no way to retrieve it.
First, that kind of money is inconsequential to the deficit. Second, all Administrations make mistakes. Bush's gave billions to Halliburton and Becktel and also lost $12 billion in cash in Iraq -- but you didn't hear any squawking from the right-wing because he was one of yours.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tall_Rep
The FACT is that obama is an inept, clueless buffoon, who had no business getting elected for a serious job that he was not qualified for. That isn't my opinion...that is a FACT that Obama himself has proven over a 3 year period. And he is there because stupid Americans decided that they wanted to make history in the 2008 election, and we are now saddled with a critical situation that threatens to change our lives forever.
This part was just a moronic rant and doesn't deserve a response.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tall_Rep
And why? Because he is NOT a leader. He is an ideologue who believes in socialism....the EURO MODEL of governence... he has gone on a path to change the direction of the United States and it doesn't matter to him that the EURO model is proven to not work. In fact..that FACT is being played out right before our eyes every day.....and STILL he pursues a path of failure.
Please show examples of his "socialism" and how he has changed the direction of the nation? You wingnuts make contradictory claims. You say 'he has changed the direction of the nation' then you say "how is that hope and change doing?" Which is it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tall_Rep
So don't tell ME that there aren't FACTS that are the basis of my opinions....unless you are blind, they are staring us in the face and have been for 3 years now. Deny that all you like...that doesn't change the FACTS.
Your facts aren't facts but caused by you absorbing the misinformation so prevalent on the right-wing.
I hate to say it, but you form your opinions from ignorance not because you have carefully analyzed the facts -- as evident by the fact that what you thought were facts were factually incorrect.
TARP was passed during the Bush Administration, not the Obama Administration. Once again, what you think are facts are fallacies. 'I'd Approve TARP Again': George W. Bush
yes...but we are talking about obama here...yes? I know it is the tactic of the *******s like you to redirect the conversation to suit your failed arguments...but try to stay on point here. The FACT is that it was the OBAMA administration that approved the bailout of the banking/insurance companies and that $$ had no stipulations on it. A large portion was paid out in bonuses. Dispute that all you like...but the FACT is that the taxpayer money he spent did little if anything to stimulate the economy.
The only fallacy here is that you have a level of intellect that is above reproach.
Quote:
First, that kind of money is inconsequential to the deficit. Second, all Administrations make mistakes. Bush's gave billions to Halliburton and Becktel and also lost $12 billion in cash in Iraq -- but you didn't hear any squawking from the right-wing because he was one of yours.
Inconsequential?? Let me remind you that this country is $15 trillion in debt....and that the projected DEBT in 8 years....if we stay on this course of spending....is $25 trillion. I don't see anything inconsequential about that.
And just to make this a little more clear to you....this debt, and the money you say is inconsequential?? THAT is what is driving the weak economy.....and it is the leadership of that idiot obama...or should I say LACK of leadership...that is the cause of the lack of confidence of investors and is also causing coporate stagnation.
Quote:
Please show examples of his "socialism" and how he has changed the direction of the nation? You wingnuts make contradictory claims. You say 'he has changed the direction of the nation' then you say "how is that hope and change doing?" Which is it?
Socialism? You want to claim he is NOT a socialist??
Socialism: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods.
Let's try government run health care for starters. Forcing people to buy a product or service under penalty of law. How about the theory of re-distribution of wealth? We've heard him talk about it.
The results of socialism are that people rely on government for handouts...$$ earned by people other than themselves. He wants to hand over free healthcare to illegal immigrants...and we pay for it.
Now...tell me once again how he is NOT a socialist?
As for Hope & Change?? I never bought into it...and neither did anyone who had any degree of intelligence (sorry....that seems to have left you out in the cold). Obama promised government transparency...he promised that people would be able to see and review bills for 30 days before they were voted on....He promised to fix the economy and if he didn't he stated publicly that he should not be re-elected...He promised to cut the debt that Bush ran up....Promised to make sure that lobbyists did not play a role in government policy...promised lower unemployment if congress passed his $750 billion bailout. He delivered on NONE of these promises.
Quote:
Your facts aren't facts but caused by you absorbing the misinformation so prevalent on the right-wing.
I hate to say it, but you form your opinions from ignorance not because you have carefully analyzed the facts -- as evident by the fact that what you thought were facts were factually incorrect.
Carefully analyzing the facts?? What is there to analyze?? We live it every day that this idiot is at the helm.
What is borne from ignorance is opinions like yours that you try to pass off as fact. You are so absorbed in finding information to assert your claim that obama is a savior and a great leader, that you ignore (the basic form of IGNORANCE) what is blatantly staring you in the face every day. In fact...you likely believe the crap that you are spewing because your research has convinced you...much like that idiot Al gore was convinced that Manhattan would be 20 feet underwater by 2020 and that the ice cap on the North Pole would already be melted by now.
I doubt that you will be able to actually see what is truth since you are obviously so buried in fallacy..but good luck to you. And I hope that 3rd grade class really thinks you are super cool when you give your presentation.
yes...but we are talking about obama here...yes? I know it is the tactic of the *******s like you to redirect the conversation to suit your failed arguments...but try to stay on point here. The FACT is that it was the OBAMA administration that approved the bailout of the banking/insurance companies and that $$ had no stipulations on it. A large portion was paid out in bonuses. Dispute that all you like...but the FACT is that the taxpayer money he spent did little if anything to stimulate the economy.
You said that the bank bailouts were Obamas. They weren't. They were Bush's. So, it stands to reason these facts are germane to the discussion. Then Sec'y Paulson made all the deals.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tall_Rep
Inconsequential?? Let me remind you that this country is $15 trillion in debt....and that the projected DEBT in 8 years....if we stay on this course of spending....is $25 trillion. I don't see anything inconsequential about that.
And just to make this a little more clear to you....this debt, and the money you say is inconsequential?? THAT is what is driving the weak economy.....and it is the leadership of that idiot obama...or should I say LACK of leadership...that is the cause of the lack of confidence of investors and is also causing coporate stagnation.
Yes, government as well as private companies take risks on new ventures and sometimes they fail. Although the righties like make a big deal about Solyndra, it's not a big deal in the scheme of things.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tall_Rep
Socialism? You want to claim he is NOT a socialist??
Socialism: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods.
Let's try government run health care for starters. Forcing people to buy a product or service under penalty of law. How about the theory of re-distribution of wealth? We've heard him talk about it.
OK, let's start with health care. It's not government run. Government has been regulating insurance for decades and this is what it is. The insurance companies are private and so is the medical care.
BTW, the Obama plan is about the same as what the Republicans offered in the 1990s. Perhaps the Republicans are Socialists?
Quote:
Until the healthcare law passed last year, requiring medical insurance had a long history as a mainstream GOP idea.
It was promoted by conservative policy experts at places like the Heritage Foundation more than 20 years ago. In the 1990s, the concept was championed by Republicans on Capitol Hill.
And it was ultimately implemented by Romney in Massachusetts; in 2006 he became the first elected official from either party to sign a mandate into law.
"I still don't see what the objection is to the idea that people should not be allowed to run around without at least some basic health insurance," said Mark Pauly, a conservative health economist at the University of Pennsylvania's Wharton School. source
I know government love government love class warfare for control. But what I don't understand is why everyday people like to use class warfare again other people.
Any tax cut is good. That mean more money with the people instead of government. At least with the people, they can spend it and be satisfied with it. When the government at the government's hand, they just wasted it and ask for more.
How the Reagan tax cuts played out for me:
Tax cut = I get to keep $300 more of my income
Rent increase resulting from Reagan tax cuts = $1200
If you think the rich get all the breaks, simple solution, get off the computer and go start making money.
You too can be rich in no time...
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Let me remind you that this country is $15 trillion in debt....and that the projected DEBT in 8 years....if we stay on this course of spending....is $25 trillion. I don't see anything inconsequential about that. 
