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Old 12-23-2011, 01:27 AM
 
Location: Chicago Area
8,006 posts, read 4,174,670 times
Reputation: 3016

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Quote:
Originally Posted by LauraC View Post
Southern democrats in the old days were conservative. Now they are largely liberal and found in urban areas. So, if the poster is young, he's thinking liberal but it wasn't always like that.
The timeline is way off for starters.

But to your point, I'm not exactly sure if "most racially bigoted political demographic in American history" and "conservative" are truly one and the same.

Rick Perry was a state representative from 1984 - 1990. In 1988 he threw his support behind Al Gore for president. In 1990 he changed to Republican because the stars had aligned to give him a better chance of winning Agriculture Commissioner from the Democrat incumbent if he ran as a Republican.

So I guess if you consider Al Gore (southern Dem from same era) to be very conservative, then perhaps you're right. That would be your best parallel since Perry strongly supported Gore's run for president.

Al Gore the ultra-conservative ...
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Old 12-23-2011, 02:51 AM
 
8,758 posts, read 8,842,430 times
Reputation: 1428
Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010 View Post
The timeline is way off for starters.

But to your point, I'm not exactly sure if "most racially bigoted political demographic in American history" and "conservative" are truly one and the same.

Rick Perry was a state representative from 1984 - 1990. In 1988 he threw his support behind Al Gore for president. In 1990 he changed to Republican because the stars had aligned to give him a better chance of winning Agriculture Commissioner from the Democrat incumbent if he ran as a Republican.

So I guess if you consider Al Gore (southern Dem from same era) to be very conservative, then perhaps you're right. That would be your best parallel since Perry strongly supported Gore's run for president.

Al Gore the ultra-conservative ...

Around here we think Al Gore is a lot of things, but conservative isn't one of them...lol.
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Old 12-23-2011, 08:22 AM
 
Location: Gone
25,235 posts, read 13,995,874 times
Reputation: 5916
Quote:
Originally Posted by LauraC View Post
...if he's only won one election in his life?

This isn't about Mitt Romney or Ron Paul per se but what the media spoon feeds us that is taken as a given by the uninformed public. What is "Mitt Romney is Most Electable" based on? Certainly not a history of winning elections or even finishing second in Presidential elections. Do you think people respond to polls by saying Mitt Romney is the Most Electable based on what they know about him or because the media keeps telling them he's the Most Electable so they parrot it when responding to polls? Do they ever ask polled voters WHY they think he's The Most Electable?

On the other hand, you have the media saying Ron Pail is not electable? Regardless of what you think of him, based on what? He's won more elections than Mitt Romney. If you say they aren't National Elections, neither is Governor of Massachusetts.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ THAT IS WHY.
Who is Ron Pail?
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Old 12-23-2011, 09:16 AM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
71,663 posts, read 83,230,487 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dixiegirl7 View Post
Around here we think Al Gore is a lot of things, but conservative isn't one of them...lol.
excellant post. I think that goes for most places in the country, conservative and Gore should not be used in the same sentence.

Nita
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Old 12-23-2011, 09:18 AM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
71,663 posts, read 83,230,487 times
Reputation: 41495
Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010 View Post
The timeline is way off for starters.

But to your point, I'm not exactly sure if "most racially bigoted political demographic in American history" and "conservative" are truly one and the same.

Rick Perry was a state representative from 1984 - 1990. In 1988 he threw his support behind Al Gore for president. In 1990 he changed to Republican because the stars had aligned to give him a better chance of winning Agriculture Commissioner from the Democrat incumbent if he ran as a Republican.

So I guess if you consider Al Gore (southern Dem from same era) to be very conservative, then perhaps you're right. That would be your best parallel since Perry strongly supported Gore's run for president.

Al Gore the ultra-conservative ...
That was Perry then, not now. Has it ever dawned on you many people as they mature change their views on issues? I am not talking flip flopping, I am talking actually changing views and opinions. I know, I certainly have, what say you?

Nita
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Old 12-23-2011, 09:19 AM
 
Location: Barrington, IL area
1,594 posts, read 2,630,424 times
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Quote:
Why Is Romney The Most Electable...
Because he is the most moderate of all the Republican candidates.
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Old 12-23-2011, 09:50 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
34,584 posts, read 33,570,813 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gramirez2012 View Post
Because he is the most moderate of all the Republican candidates.
Moderate was not a deciding factor when Obama ran in 2008. Why should our candidate be a moderate? To please Democrats?
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Old 12-23-2011, 10:18 AM
 
4,749 posts, read 3,596,136 times
Reputation: 3224
Quote:
Originally Posted by LauraC View Post
...if he's only won one election in his life?

This isn't about Mitt Romney or Ron Paul per se but what the media spoon feeds us that is taken as a given by the uninformed public. What is "Mitt Romney is Most Electable" based on? Certainly not a history of winning elections or even finishing second in Presidential elections. Do you think people respond to polls by saying Mitt Romney is the Most Electable based on what they know about him or because the media keeps telling them he's the Most Electable so they parrot it when responding to polls? Do they ever ask polled voters WHY they think he's The Most Electable?

On the other hand, you have the media saying Ron Pail is not electable? Regardless of what you think of him, based on what? He's won more elections than Mitt Romney. If you say they aren't National Elections, neither is Governor of Massachusetts.
He's not an automatic to defeat Obama, but he has the best chance of all the main GOP contenders and polls repeatedly show that. Obama, by my own admission, is not a particularly popular president right now, but when you put him up against any one of the tea party cranks or Newt Gingrich, he is leading by convincing margins - almost 15 percentage points in most cases, and that's the best case scenario. Against Romney, that number shrinks to under ten percent, and its even closer when Obama trips up politically. Those numbers will get even closer once the Republican in-fighting stops.

GOP'ers have this notion in their head that they keep losing presidential elections because they haven't elected a super conservative who energizes the base. That's Rove-speak. Conservatives need more than their base to win elections. They need moderate-right leaning conservatives to get off their butts to show up at the polls, but that's not really a 'base' of support. Those voters are just as easily turned off by jarheads as their base is turned on by them.

And the GOP needs to remember: McCain probably would have won the election had it not been for two things. 1) McCain would have won had the economy not gone so far south so quickly; and 2) He would have won had he not picked arguably the worst person possible to be his running mate. All media fascination with her aside, she crippled his credibility among mainstream voters. Paul was his political hemlock.

Republicans need Romney. They would be better off if he were to win the nomination and then pick someone like Chris Christie or Mike Huckabee to run as a V.P. I personally like Christie better, but Huckabee might solidify Romney's conservative credentials more, and Huckabee would not be like Joe Biden, ending up as nothing more than the Fredo Corleone of the administration.
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Old 12-23-2011, 12:09 PM
 
Location: Boston, MA
11,656 posts, read 8,252,113 times
Reputation: 5752
Because he is a highly successful fairly moderate executive and seeing as we are going to be voting for the chief executive it kinda makes sense.

There should be a constitutional amendment banning members of the legislature from being president.

Last edited by Mr. Joshua; 12-23-2011 at 12:27 PM..
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Old 12-23-2011, 12:23 PM
 
Location: Chicago Area
8,006 posts, read 4,174,670 times
Reputation: 3016
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmnita View Post
That was Perry then, not now. Has it ever dawned on you many people as they mature change their views on issues? I am not talking flip flopping, I am talking actually changing views and opinions. I know, I certainly have, what say you?

Nita
I believe people can change. I'm just pointing out how completely ridiculous it is to hold Mitt Romney to such a high standard. "If you ever supported X, then you can never be forgiven." Then the GOP just conveniently lowers to bar waaay down to accommodate people who are actually much worse than Mitt at "flip-flopping." If Perry gets a pass because "people can change," why does this not also apply equally to Mitt Romney??

Mostly ithe fact that Rick Perry changed only at the most convenient time - that's what tends to make you question his sincerity.

But yes, it is possible that Rick Perry of today is a real Republican. We can't really know that for certain, but he seems to be.

More important than my opinion is what happens in the general election. The Democrats will have an absolute field day with Newt Gingrich and Rick Perry. Romney actually gives them a lot less material to work with. The difference is, Mitt's flaws and past mistakes are the only ones being talked about.

Why the double standard in the GOP? Why is it that only Mitt gets blasted for changing position on the issues? They've all done it, so why aren't we hearing about the "past sins" of all the others?
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