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Old 02-28-2012, 04:53 PM
 
Location: SE Arizona - FINALLY! :D
19,874 posts, read 22,685,733 times
Reputation: 7147

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjski View Post
LOL! L like that! The higher you have to go to park...the higher the consumer confidence!

Probably pretty accurate, actually.
Yeah, those folks in the garage were SHOPPING - something they hadn't been doing for the last few years - and THAT is good for the economy.

Ken
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Old 02-28-2012, 04:56 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC (in my mind)
7,946 posts, read 14,986,400 times
Reputation: 4474
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnUnidentifiedMale View Post
Unfortunately, I sincerely believe that many Republicans want to see the economy decline. It's a sentiment based on pure political selfishness.
I doubt Republicans want to see the economy decline, but most aren't totally naive about it either. Check out these links.


Orders for durable goods plunge after tax benefit expires - Feb. 28, 2012

News Headlines

News Headlines

News Headlines

Online grocers and food trucks prep for a rise in gas prices - Feb. 28, 2012

Home prices are lowest since 2002 - Feb. 28, 2012

I could care less about the gosh darn Dow. When home prices are still falling to record lows, the labor market participation rate (the true measure of unemployment) is still falling, gas prices are skyrocketing, and its still darn near impossible to find a job, I cannot agree with Obama supporters that this economy is so great.
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Old 02-28-2012, 05:03 PM
 
1,726 posts, read 1,255,512 times
Reputation: 773
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordBalfor View Post
Um, those are DECEMBER numbers - meaning CHRISTMAS shopping. Debt ALWAYS goes up that time of year. More people were taking on debt last year because more of them HAD JOBS.



Ken
No, they are not. Open up the link and look at it.

Consumer credit increased at an annual rate of 7-1/2 percent in the fourth quarter. Revolving credit increased at an annual rate of 4-1/2 percent, and nonrevolving credit increased 9 percent. In December, consumer credit increased at an annual rate of 9-1/4 percent.

Look at the fourth quarter from 2010 to 2011. There is quite a difference and consumers are taking on more debt.

Plus, lets not mention the fact that Americans dug their debt hole deeper by more than $20 billion in November, the biggest monthly gain in 10 years, the Federal Reserve reports.
November boost in consumer debt is most in 10 years

Yeah, just your typical Christmas spending.

Plus, you didn't prove that this spending was fueled by increased wages and jobs, and not credit. You seemed to conveniently miss this fact.
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Old 02-28-2012, 05:07 PM
 
Location: SE Arizona - FINALLY! :D
19,874 posts, read 22,685,733 times
Reputation: 7147
Quote:
Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
I doubt Republicans want to see the economy decline, but most aren't totally naive about it either. Check out these links.


Orders for durable goods plunge after tax benefit expires - Feb. 28, 2012

News Headlines

News Headlines

News Headlines

Online grocers and food trucks prep for a rise in gas prices - Feb. 28, 2012

Home prices are lowest since 2002 - Feb. 28, 2012

I could care less about the gosh darn Dow. When home prices are still falling to record lows, the labor market participation rate (the true measure of unemployment) is still falling, gas prices are skyrocketing, and its still darn near impossible to find a job, I cannot agree with Obama supporters that this economy is so great.
First off, a lot of those stories contained good news as well as negative news.

Secondly rising gas prices ARE going to hurt the economy and take some of the "steam" out it - no doubt about, but that's just a fact of life in an age where 1) speculation drives so much of the price - and - 2) China, India etc are modernizing at a rapid pace and putting more and more demand on oil supplies. Though folks WILL try to score political points with it, the truth is it doesn't matter WHO is President, those issues will present.

Thirdly, no one here has said the "economy is so great" - but it IS improving, and so far that improvement seems to be excelerating (at long last)

Ken
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Old 02-28-2012, 05:13 PM
 
Location: SE Arizona - FINALLY! :D
19,874 posts, read 22,685,733 times
Reputation: 7147
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Common Anomaly View Post
No, they are not. Open up the link and look at it.

Consumer credit increased at an annual rate of 7-1/2 percent in the fourth quarter. Revolving credit increased at an annual rate of 4-1/2 percent, and nonrevolving credit increased 9 percent. In December, consumer credit increased at an annual rate of 9-1/4 percent.

Look at the fourth quarter from 2010 to 2011. There is quite a difference and consumers are taking on more debt.

Plus, lets not mention the fact that Americans dug their debt hole deeper by more than $20 billion in November, the biggest monthly gain in 10 years, the Federal Reserve reports.
November boost in consumer debt is most in 10 years

Yeah, just your typical Christmas spending.

Plus, you didn't prove that this spending was fueled by increased wages and jobs, and not credit. You seemed to conveniently miss this fact.
How about THIS - from your OWN link:

Why did Americans take on more debt? The Associated Press calls it "a sign of their growing confidence in the economy."

Bloomberg echoes that, but tempers the optimism. A drop in unemployment "is giving households the courage to take advantage of holiday discounts, buy cars and finance higher education. At the same time, dependence on credit means the job market has yet to improve enough to provide the incomes needed to sustain consumer purchases, which account for about 70 percent of the economy."

"Consumers are feeling more confident and making more big- ticket purchases, said Richard DeKaser, an economist at Parthenon Group Inc. in Boston. "The debt pay downs of previous years are now allowing consumers to borrow a bit more freely."


The REASON they feel more confident is because they feel more SECURE about their job situation. During the depths of the recession, debt FELL because 1) People were worried about their jobs and thus didn't take on more debt but rather tied to pay their debt down - and 2) Credit was ultra tight - but it's NOW starting to return to a more normal situation.

While individual debt may not be a good thing for individuals, it IS a good indication of increases in consumer confidence and economic activity.



Ken
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Old 02-28-2012, 05:16 PM
 
1,661 posts, read 1,187,046 times
Reputation: 703
Quote:
Originally Posted by nononsenseguy View Post
I think you are mistaken; it is the Democrats that want to see the economy decline. And they have been working on it (quite successfully, too) since Obama waltzed into office and declared himself God.

They have done nothing to improve what they "inherited" (which was blissfull, compared to what we have now), and everything to make things a complete disaster.

But, I'm not surprised, coming from you, that you see things differenty. You are totally "in the tank" for this ass hole we call a "preisident" (small P is intentional).
Obama declared himself God? Must have missed that.

The economy has been growing, as have jobs. You might have missed that on Fox News.

Losing half the Dow's value and 700K jobs a month was "bliss"?

Was the misspelling of "president" also intentional?
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Old 02-28-2012, 05:18 PM
 
8,266 posts, read 10,671,690 times
Reputation: 4769
Quote:
Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
I could care less about the gosh darn Dow.
That is kind of funny, since when it was falling you were all over it, starting threads like this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
Down another 600+ points today. Its Sept 2008 all over again. Except this time there will be no bailout. Sometime soon a major US bank will fail, much like Lehman, and it will bring down the entire US economic system. Look for job losses in the 3-5 million range per month going into the fall. One economist is predicting 50% unemployment in 2012...that is higher than I have ever thought possible. That same economist is predicting a 90% fall in the Dow, which should take it down around the 1500 mark.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
Yes, we may have $50 oil by the end of 2011 but that will be accompanied by Dow 5000 and unemployment 20%.
Etc. on and on you've spent so much time talking about and incorrectly predicting an impending DIJA crash and now that it is bumping against 13k suddenly you don't care about dow? Hilarious.
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Old 02-28-2012, 05:21 PM
 
Location: SE Arizona - FINALLY! :D
19,874 posts, read 22,685,733 times
Reputation: 7147
Quote:
Originally Posted by slackjaw View Post
That is kind of funny, since when it was falling you were all over it, starting threads like this:





Etc. on and on you've spent so much time talking about and incorrectly predicting an impending DIJA crash and now that it is bumping against 13k suddenly you don't care about dow? Hilarious.
Yeah, funny how that works ain't it?
Tried to rep you but can't right now - so this ( ) will have to do.



Ken
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Old 02-28-2012, 05:37 PM
 
1,726 posts, read 1,255,512 times
Reputation: 773
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordBalfor View Post
How about THIS - from your OWN link:

Why did Americans take on more debt? The Associated Press calls it "a sign of their growing confidence in the economy."

Bloomberg echoes that, but tempers the optimism. A drop in unemployment "is giving households the courage to take advantage of holiday discounts, buy cars and finance higher education. At the same time, dependence on credit means the job market has yet to improve enough to provide the incomes needed to sustain consumer purchases, which account for about 70 percent of the economy."

"Consumers are feeling more confident and making more big- ticket purchases, said Richard DeKaser, an economist at Parthenon Group Inc. in Boston. "The debt pay downs of previous years are now allowing consumers to borrow a bit more freely."


The REASON they feel more confident is because they feel more SECURE about their job situation. During the depths of the recession, debt FELL because 1) People were worried about their jobs and thus didn't take on more debt but rather tied to pay their debt down - and 2) Credit was ultra tight - but it's NOW starting to return to a more normal situation.

While individual debt may not be a good thing for individuals, it IS a good indication of increases in consumer confidence and economic activity.



Ken
You still failed to prove that consumer spending was financed by wages and job opportunities rather than increasing debt. I need to remind you of my original post, which you have a problem with, Spending was fueled by increasing debt, not because consumers had more money in their pockets due to higher wages and jobs.

I never said that consumers were not feeling more confident, but you were bent on creating strawmans and reding, which is a practice in dishonesty.

Nonetheless, this confidence is fueling increased debt from credit, and not being fueled by income. Despite, your contentions with my claim, you have failed to prove me wrong. In fact, In a grim sign of the enduring nature of the economic slump, household income declined more in the two years after the recession ended than it did during the recession itself, new research has found.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/10/us...t-falling.html

Feel free to prove that this increased spending is not being fueled by credit. I look forward to it.
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Old 02-28-2012, 05:42 PM
 
574 posts, read 375,495 times
Reputation: 347
Quote:
Originally Posted by slackjaw View Post
That is kind of funny, since when it was falling you were all over it, starting threads like this:





Etc. on and on you've spent so much time talking about and incorrectly predicting an impending DIJA crash and now that it is bumping against 13k suddenly you don't care about dow? Hilarious.
OUCH! lol
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