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That is why we will never agree. The bolded is not an extreme view by any stretch of the imagination. Granted there is a lot of propaganda out there that will paint it that way, but its not. The people who try to paint liberalism as an extreme view are pushing the kind division that that particular piece is arguing is a problem and that is about the only part of the video I think is accurate...that excessive divisiveness causes problems.
For me the message is simple don't look at our problems look at how bad the other people are.
Just to be clear. All of those things I listed are just labels and words. The degree that they are extreme is indeed a perception. My point is about the bipolar view or perception that people jump to and can fall into quite easily. That is why I used the word dialectic. Your very first absolute statement is a good example.
However, your last statement is of course the ego mantra. (lol)
Just to be clear. All of those things I listed are just labels and words. The degree that they are extreme is indeed a perception. My point is about the bipolar view or perception that people jump to and can fall into quite easily. That is why I used the word dialectic. Your very first absolute statement is a good example.
However, your last statement is of course the ego mantra. (lol)
That is just a fancy way of saying ignore this statement I made 2 posts ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDusr
For me I most certainly see a message about people seeking answers in extreme views. Be it sexism, racism, liberalism, classism, terrorism etc...
That is just a fancy way of saying ignore this statement I made 2 posts ago.
No. It isn't. The extreme view doesn't equal an "ism". Which is what the video was discussing. I am not saying ignore what I stated. I am attempting to clarify it. I would say again you seem to be having a bit of a bi-polar response.
No. It isn't. The extreme view doesn't equal an "ism". Which is what the video was discussing. I am not saying ignore it what I stated. I am attempting to clarify it. I would say again you seem to be having a bit of a bi-polar response.
I guess we just will not agree then, because an extreme view can equal an ism and it is patently clear what you were trying to insinuate by listing "liberalism" with "terrorism" and "racism"
My problem with the video like my problem with all propaganda is it externalizes problems. The trap people, including you, fall into when they watch propaganda is that they think about how bad the mean, old bad guy outsiders are and how bad thing will be if we don't follow X system or belief. That is what it is for, ginning up people to go after other people. It doesn't offer any real solutions to the problems people face that are of their own making.
For example, this particular piece presupposes that in 1948 America racism was not at all a problem which we all should know is wrong. It also, if you watch it, does address the issue of labor management conflict as well as issues faced by farmers etc. but it does not offer any solutions except to say at least we are not like those other bad societies that have the "ism."
I find the scene where the politician is replaced by the state propaganda record particularly ironic since the cartoon is basically saying "everything is find" "everything is fine" don't look at our problems look at how bad the big blue hand is.
I guess we just will not agree then, because an extreme view can equal an ism and its is patently clear what you were trying to insinuate by listing "liberalism" with "terrorism" and "racism"
My problem with the video like my problem with all propaganda is it externalizes problems. The trap people, including you, fall into when they watch propaganda is that they think about how bad the mean, old bad guy outsiders are and how bad thing will be if we don't follow X system or belief. That is what it is for, ginning up people to go after other people. It doesn't offer any real solutions to the problems people face that are of their own making.
For example, this particular piece presupposes that in 1948 America racism was not at all a problem which we all should know is wrong. It also, if you watch it, does address the issue of labor management conflict as well as issues faced by farmers etc. but it does not offer any solutions except to say at least we are not like those other bad societies that have the "ism."
I find the scene where the politician is replaced by the state propaganda record particularly ironic since the cartoon is basically saying "everything is find" "everything is fine" don't look at our problems with divisiveness look at how bad the big blue hand is.
Apparently, it wasn't patently clear. I wouldn't insinuate. Not sure why you are just assuming that. They were just examples of isms, nothing more.
I didn't say they couldn't be extremes. I think I was clear that they could be, thus my statements. As to your comment about bad outsiders I have no idea why you think I believe what you just stated because I do not.
Actually, I think it was saying don't buy into the dialectic manipulation of an ism. Something that "propaganda" utilizes quite well. They all marched off getting along just fine. However, I think the big blue hand can be quite a problem, especially the bigger it gets.
Apparently, it wasn't patently clear. I wouldn't insinuate. Not sure why you are just assuming that. They were just examples of isms, nothing more.
I didn't say they couldn't be extremes. I think I was clear that they could be, thus my statements. As to your comment about bad outsiders I have no idea why you think I believe what you just stated because I do not.
Actually, I think it was saying don't buy into the dialectic manipulation of an ism. Something that "propaganda" utilizes quite well. They all marched off getting along just fine. However, I think the big blue hand can be quite a problem, especially the bigger it gets.
I think based on what you are saying you are buying it hook line and sinker. The entire point wasn't about the "ism" the "ism" was simply a boogy man to say that we should not address the problems we have, because of the boogy man of the ism and big blue hand.
The people producing the film obviously don't care about the problems they talk about. They don't care about labor and management fighting, they don't care about the farmer struggling, they certainly don't care about racial problems since they sugar coat the c*** out of that one, and so on and so forth. All they care about is maintaining the status quo. The entire point of the video is not to talk about solutions, it is not to talk about how labor and management can work together, or how the lot of farmers can be improved it is about scaring the s*** out of labor, management, and farmers so they will stop discussing their concerns out of fear about the boogy man, the outside force, the big blue hand if you will. It's basically the adult equivalent of saying "you think my punishment is bad, just you wait 'til your father comes home." The purpose of that entire piece like all propaganda pieces is to stifle legitimate debate by using fear and the fact that you saying essentially look at how scary the big blue hand might be means you are buying it.
Last edited by Randomstudent; 03-27-2012 at 06:29 PM..
I think based on what you are saying you are buying it hook line and sinker. The entire point wasn't about the "ism" the "ism" was simply a boogy man to say that we should not address the problems we have, because of the boogy man of the ism and big blue hand.
The people producing the film obviously don't care about the problems they talk about. They don't care about labor and management fighting, they don't care about the farmer struggling, they certainly don't care about racial problems since they sugar coat the c*** out of that one, and so on and so forth. All they care about is maintaining the status quo. The entire point of the video is not to talk about solutions, it is not to talk about how labor and management can work together, or how the lot of farmers can be improved it is about scaring the s*** out of labor, management, and farmers so they will stop discussing their concerns out of fear about the boogy man, the outside force, the big blue hand if you will. The purpose of that entire piece like all propaganda pieces is to stifle legitimate debate by using fear and the fact that you saying essentially look at how scary the big blue hand might be means you are buying it.
Ok, you are entitled to your interpretation. Much of what you appear to see, such as 'racism' I don't really see here.(other than a general ism)
There is also no doubt there is some 'PC' language going on. I certainly didn't see the big fear angle either. It didn't look too scary. I am not scared of the big blue hand, at least not anymore than anybody is, so I am not buying what you claim they are selling. I do have a view of what I believe govt's role is, however.
I don't really see a short "cartoon" as being much of a tool for stifling debate though.
Ok, you are entitled to your interpretation. Much of what you appear to see, such as 'racism' I don't really see here.(other than a general ism)
There is also no doubt there is some 'PC' language going on. I certainly didn't see the big fear angle either. It didn't look too scary. I am not scared of the big blue hand, at least not anymore than anybody is, so I am not buying what you claim they are selling. I do have a view of what I believe govt's role is, however.
I don't really see a short "cartoon" as being much of a tool for stifling debate though.
That is the point. The year this film was made was 1948, but yet they opt to show pictures of integrated classrooms and just straight up ignore the reality of the time which was Jim Crow. If this cartoon were taken in isolation to depict race relations in 1948 the last thing you would think were that large swaths of America were forcibly segregated and you would never think that a large scale civil rights movement would arise with a few short years.
As to what they are selling it seem to me patently clear, America is great and has only trivial problems which will always exist and you can never solve them, but if you try bad things will happen with the big blue hand.
Some of the libs post objections that are so far-removed from reality that their messages bring a vision of someone in the basement of the White House desperately typing away for the "fight the smears" campaign.
"Smears..." isn't it cute how they label things because they think they have most of our youth brainwashed, already.......like this TV commercial they made, and had ready for airing within days of BO's historic election!!
(THIS is yet another PURRFECT Campaign commercial that can unseat Obama! IF only his opponent will USE it, and others like it, guaranteed.)
if you read it carefully you can easily poke holes at it. I really wonder how the heck he won with that campaign message....
his opponents must really be dumb/dumber....
She said "i promise to be a servant to the president and mankind?"
UM first of all it should be i promise to be protect the constitution of America and her freedoms
not be a slave to America
not to die for presidents ideals but for the ideals that represent America the constitution.
that campaign message was clearly for those that put America second and others first if you read that propaganda message carefully.
as for the op cartoon. of course it was a form of propaganda 99% of all we watch are a form of propaganda but some have more facts than others and some are more bias than others.
the message coming from the cartoon should be. despite our differences we should not give up our freedoms for security.
remember the quote: Ben Franklin
those whom give up freedom for security deserve neither freedom nor security.
so what have we given up through these years, yep more of our freedom for security.
those that support this way of thinking are treasonous. aka the government itself is treason.
but of course that is also a form of propaganda. but it is pretty factual imo and rings true to reality.
so thanks neo-cons you are the true traitors as you keep harping about others being traitors for not supporting the ndaa, patriot act(really unpatriot act), sopa, pipa, hr347, ndrp eo, Libya war, syrian war, iran war, FEDERAL reserve bailouts, gm bail outs, enslaving our kids futures without their consent, wait what else.
well so many to name. neo cons from both demo and rebublicans please go into a corner and do some thinking. we know neo-cons are part of both parties, now go think for once what you have done.
That is the point. The year this film was made was 1948, but yet they opt to show pictures of integrated classrooms and just straight up ignore the reality of the time which was Jim Crow. If this cartoon were taken in isolation to depict race relations in 1948 the last thing you would think were that large swaths of America were forcibly segregated and you would never think that a large scale civil rights movement would arise with a few short years.
As to what they are selling it seem to me patently clear, America is great and only trivial problems which will always exist and you can never solve them, but if you try bad things will happen with the big blue hand.
I don't assume the angle you are taking on race here. That is a bit too blanketing to me. Certainly, those who made the vid were coming from their particular view as well. I just don't think this vid was about race relations so not sure why you would focus on that.
I don't see it as particularly trying to gloss over issues either. Pretty much all of what you saw on TV was highly censored and society was very different so I can see context relationships as important, but you have to be careful how you apply it.
I don't think it was saying you can never solve them, but rather we have to remain non-divided in order to remain a great nation and not fall into the false dialectic of isms. Of course we already established that it seemed aimed at certain "imported" isms.
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(lol)
