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Old 05-08-2012, 01:20 PM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,715 posts, read 11,523,903 times
Reputation: 5606

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Quote:
Originally Posted by claudhopper View Post
That's a fallacy, many are collecting SSI that never paid a dime into it. Plus you will take out far more than you ever put in.
Why hand your money over to the gov't, when you can invest it yourself? Many of us want the option to do just that. You can stay with the social program if you choose, but it's going belly up anyway.
A) Yes, a five-year old whose working parents died will collect dependent benefits. So? Her parents paid into the system.

B) The idea of Social Security is not that one could gamble and get a better return. Where would you be if you needed that money after the severe downturn in 2007?
There is no guarantee that you will beat SSA's return. All through the 1960s and 1970s, stock returns were flat and negative through much of the 2000s. During that period, your investing would be a loser.

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Old 05-08-2012, 01:32 PM
 
3,614 posts, read 3,041,295 times
Reputation: 909
Quote:
Originally Posted by claudhopper View Post
That's a fallacy, many are collecting SSI that never paid a dime into it. Plus you will take out far more than you ever put in.
Why hand your money over to the gov't, when you can invest it yourself? Many of us want the option to do just that. You can stay with the social program if you choose, but it's going belly up anyway.
I don't understand how my statement is a fallacy. Explain.

Social Security in no way prevents you from investing on your own. That's a false-dichotomy fallacy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beatles4evr View Post
Where does one start with such a loaf of abject, mindless, infantile gibberish as above.
Off to a good start

Quote:
First of all, a person's payments eats up their contributions and interest within a few short years. After that, they are just trough-slopping.
A different discussion all together.

Quote:
How does one become "dependent" on an unaccountable corporation? And, assuming arguendo, such a thing existed, why is being dependent on government, that has the power of legal life and death, deprivation, etc., over you, better tan being dependent on a corporation, which is a powerless entity.
A government can't kill you without due process, and its action affect every individual in the United States, including those who pass it. They are accountable by law and oversight for everything they do.

And do you know what a pension is?

Quote:
And finally, why are either of those better than being Independent of others, and fully depended only upon yourself.?
Most people can't afford to be wholly independent. The average person will see less than a million dollars accrued income throughout their entire life. Most of that is spent on things like your home, your health, and your livelihood. What's the average cost to retire? Unless your idea of retirement is moving to Somalia in one of their low-rent apartments, people need supplemental incomes after retirement. Social Security provides that for people who otherwise don't have funds to invest or save elsewhere.
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Old 05-08-2012, 02:09 PM
 
867 posts, read 402,582 times
Reputation: 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Konraden View Post
I don't understand how my statement is a fallacy. Explain.

Social Security in no way prevents you from investing on your own. That's a false-dichotomy fallacy.



Off to a good start



A different discussion all together.



A government can't kill you without due process, and its action affect every individual in the United States, including those who pass it. They are accountable by law and oversight for everything they do.

And do you know what a pension is?



Most people can't afford to be wholly independent. The average person will see less than a million dollars accrued income throughout their entire life. Most of that is spent on things like your home, your health, and your livelihood. What's the average cost to retire? Unless your idea of retirement is moving to Somalia in one of their low-rent apartments, people need supplemental incomes after retirement. Social Security provides that for people who otherwise don't have funds to invest or save elsewhere.
It's obvious you just make it up as you go. That is great for a fiction writer, but doesn't make for serious debate (which you do NOT present). People can and will do whatever they situation required of them if you don't jame a teat in their mouth hooked, indirectly to somebody else's bank account.

Anyway, your "posts" have grown quite tiresome in their zombie-like droning on, but saying nothing, manner.
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Old 05-08-2012, 02:19 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,777 posts, read 24,824,895 times
Reputation: 12162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beatles4evr View Post
It's obvious you just make it up as you go. That is great for a fiction writer, but doesn't make for serious debate (which you do NOT present). People can and will do whatever they situation required of them if you don't jame a teat in their mouth hooked, indirectly to somebody else's bank account.

Anyway, your "posts" have grown quite tiresome in their zombie-like droning on, but saying nothing, manner.
Funny, how "doesn't make for a serious debate" is conveniently embedded.
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Old 05-08-2012, 02:31 PM
 
3,614 posts, read 3,041,295 times
Reputation: 909
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beatles4evr View Post
It's obvious you just make it up as you go. That is great for a fiction writer, but doesn't make for serious debate (which you do NOT present). People can and will do whatever they situation required of them if you don't jame a teat in their mouth hooked, indirectly to somebody else's bank account.

Anyway, your "posts" have grown quite tiresome in their zombie-like droning on, but saying nothing, manner.
I think you're unhappy because I'm right. You failed to provide an example of when the "government's meddling" both failed to solve the problem, and created more problems--and your attempt to do so (after I called bull**** on your first attempt)--poverty (despite being a tremendously complex and impossible to eradicate social ill)--I was able to show you wrong by pointing out that Social Security aided tremendously in cutting down elderly poverty, and helps millions of people get through tough times every year.


And then you attacked old people for daring to be independent from their families.

If you read the report I originally cited, if they were living with their families, elderly poverty would be even lower.

So, have a nice night.
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Old 05-08-2012, 02:43 PM
 
Location: Stillwater, Oklahoma
14,760 posts, read 13,256,936 times
Reputation: 4480
Quote:
Originally Posted by geeoro View Post
I know exactly how a Govt. funded UHC works and how it performs and to what cost to every citizen. Govt. funded health care works in every other country that has implemented it with great success.
I would now like to know your experience with a socialistic health system and any other countries you have lived in to know how sociaism fails.
America has had socialism for a number of years and all i hear is the panic fueled moaning of some here about socialism creeping into America.... too late it's here but America calls it "bail outs" and only "freeloading" when money is actually given to the needy.........
But conservatives will tell you that UHC would be a total nightmare in the United States, because Europeans have to wait for months on end for needed surgery.
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Old 05-08-2012, 02:47 PM
 
Location: Stillwater, Oklahoma
14,760 posts, read 13,256,936 times
Reputation: 4480
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nayabone View Post
Where do you get your news? You are repeating absolute lies..! No wonder you like obama, you believe all the lies..!
The economy is NOT improving, it's getting worse, and obama's record on employment is terrible, he is losing jobs by the truck load every day. He does so on purpose to destroy this country.
And we are supposed to be fool hardy enough to vote for Romney? Never in a million years!
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Old 05-08-2012, 03:44 PM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,715 posts, read 11,523,903 times
Reputation: 5606
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nayabone

The economy is NOT improving, it's getting worse, and obama's record on employment is terrible, he is losing jobs by the truck load every day. He does so on purpose to destroy this country.
As Donald Rumsfeld would ask, "what are your metrics for that conclusion?"

Employment when Obama was elected were down by hundreds of thousands per month; now they are up for 26 straight months.

Confidence is up; factory orders are up; retailing is better than it was; auto sales are up.



What are your metrics to prove things are worse?
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Old 05-08-2012, 04:04 PM
 
Location: Point Hope Alaska
4,320 posts, read 3,667,893 times
Reputation: 1146
Nice try . Real unemployment is 20% BUT this administration does not count the people in which benefits have expired that are still out of work; So they hand you a pair of rosy sunglasses with charts and false information to deceive people into thinking it is the good ole days!!
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Old 05-08-2012, 04:26 PM
 
867 posts, read 402,582 times
Reputation: 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Konraden View Post
I think you're unhappy because I'm right. You failed to provide an example of when the "government's meddling" both failed to solve the problem, and created more problems--and your attempt to do so (after I called bull**** on your first attempt)--poverty (despite being a tremendously complex and impossible to eradicate social ill)--I was able to show you wrong by pointing out that Social Security aided tremendously in cutting down elderly poverty, and helps millions of people get through tough times every year.


And then you attacked old people for daring to be independent from their families.

If you read the report I originally cited, if they were living with their families, elderly poverty would be even lower.

So, have a nice night.
yes, you're right and history is wrong. Yup - over there in Delusionville, anyway.
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