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Old 05-10-2012, 11:02 AM
 
4,380 posts, read 2,921,761 times
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Utopianism + hate.
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Old 05-10-2012, 12:00 PM
 
Location: Gone
25,235 posts, read 13,992,038 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiddlehead View Post
I think most liberals are incrementalists these days. They want to make the world a bit better with each generation, and to make it harder for one generation to screw the future generations through self-serving stupidity.

The communists ideals did not work with human nature, so we need to have the self-serving forces that get people to work hard coupled with the softer forces that make life worth living. The question is how to strike that balance. Government is an essential part of the equation, as it is the only force strong enough to protect us from each other.
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Old 05-10-2012, 05:06 PM
 
1,333 posts, read 844,432 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noexcuseforignorance View Post
...and the number of those things that have tried to be removed by Republicans is 0. Bush tried reforming social security, just a little, and his own party revolted.

Who passed them is really immaterial if they are wanted by both parties. Skip the partisanship next time and you'll have a much better thread.
Now that was funny....YOU....talking about skipping partisanship!!
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Old 05-10-2012, 05:14 PM
 
1,333 posts, read 844,432 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiddlehead View Post
I think most liberals are incrementalists these days. They want to make the world a bit better with each generation, and to make it harder for one generation to screw the future generations through self-serving stupidity.

The communists ideals did not work with human nature, so we need to have the self-serving forces that get people to work hard coupled with the softer forces that make life worth living. The question is how to strike that balance. Government is an essential part of the equation, as it is the only force strong enough to protect us from each other.
So then....this is why $16 TRILLION in debt is alright?....because they want to make the world a better place one generation at a time?

Here's a clue...a Utopia in this country starts with SMALLER government...one that allows people to keep more of their own money and to make something of themselves. Handing out piddly welfare checks isn't making ANYTHING better for ANYONE. Regulating industry to DEATH and forcing them to move overseas OR send manufacturing operations oversease isn't helping either. And unfortunately, THAT is what the liberal way dictates.

A Utopian world is government encouraging people to move forward....to get ahead in life by hard work and ingenuity...not telling them that the government will give them enough to live on, but not go ANYWHERE, or have ANY hope.

You *******s need to step OFF and drop your 'utopian' ideals because they have PROVEN not to work. Go smoke some herb....lay around the shanty, and let people who KNOW how to lead take the reins...because clearly, none of you have a f*ING clue.
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Old 05-10-2012, 08:20 PM
 
Location: Golden, CO
2,108 posts, read 2,490,032 times
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Republicans suffer from the just world fallacy. From here:

Quote:
The just-world phenomenon is a term referring to people's tendency to believe that the world is just and that people get what they deserve. Because people want to believe that the world is fair, they will look for ways to explain or rationalize away injustice - often by blaming the victim...

Another possible explanation for the just-world phenomenon is that people want to reduce the anxiety that is caused by injustices. Believing that the individual is completely responsible for their misfortune, people are able to go on believing that the world is fair and just.
In other words, if people are poor, it is because they didn't work hard enough.

Wow, they just don't get it. They have no idea how hard working people can lose everything when they get seriously sick, and lose their job, and accumulate a mountain of medical debt. They have no idea about so many life stories. They just can't conceive of it, because they have no idea how lucky they've been. In the world they live in, hard work is rewarded, and they think the whole world is that way.

Yes, we have a personal responsibility to do the best we can in whatever circumstances we are in, but this is not a just world we live in. Those of us who have been lucky enough to be in a situation in which our hard work paid off should help others who have not been so blest.

Helping someone doesn't necessarily mean that you are crippling them, that you are making them dependent and killing their desire to provide for themselves. I know many stories of people who were given a little help from the government and now they are standing on their own without government assistance. To tell you the truth, I am one of those people.

Even for those willing to work hard, it takes a little while to lift oneself out of poverty, and they can use a little help making it through that tough spot.

Our society can be so much better and much more stable as we all rise together.
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