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Old 08-15-2012, 12:17 PM
 
10,092 posts, read 8,205,160 times
Reputation: 3411

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MMM05 View Post
And you are one of the few I listen too. Who's going to Win?
Thanks--that's very kind of you. I don't have a crystal ball. If the race was about Obama's domestic track record on the economy, I think he would lose, but it looks to me like the Romney campaign is doing everything in their power to move the discussion to other issues, much to their disadvantage. Romney came out and said he's not going to release any more tax returns, and the democrats aren't going to let go of that issue. As voters start paying more attention, and as we get closer to fall, I think it's really going to hurt him. He looks like he's hiding something--that's why so many major R's are pleading with him to just put the returns out there and move on.

I've said this on other threads, but I think Paul Ryan was a risky and most likely desperate choice by the Romney campaign. He brings absolutely nothing to the table but his tea party credentials--the Ryan Plan--which tells me that Romney was either afraid of losing his base and facing a nightmare at convention, or that there were big strings attached to his funding from major donors, and they're calling the shots. Ryan's pick solidifies him with his own base, but that's about it. Because Romney doesn't have a strong identity on his own, and Ryan does, Ryan is going to suck the air out of the room in terms of the policy debate--this election is going to be about making deep cuts to social security and medicare instead of job creation. They're not going to win on that.

The good side is that we're actually going to have a debate in this country over what we want America to look like, and which direction we want to go. It's a discussion that needs to happen, and the Ryan plan forces the issue. Based on all those factors, and regardless of where polling is at right now, I think this presidential race will probably go to the democrats, unless some huge curve ball comes out at the last minute. I could be wrong, but I think the Romney camp has too many negatives to overcome. The big question is what type of impact it's going to have on the Senate and the House. Some republicans are already running AGAINST the Ryan plan--it's going to be a very interesting fall.
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Old 08-15-2012, 12:25 PM
 
Location: South Dakota
2,608 posts, read 2,097,333 times
Reputation: 769
Ryan is not The Tea Party, he's just another Republican... Ron Paul is The Tea Party...
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Old 08-15-2012, 12:28 PM
 
1,698 posts, read 1,822,745 times
Reputation: 777
Quote:
Originally Posted by mb1547 View Post
Thanks--that's very kind of you. I don't have a crystal ball. If the race was about Obama's domestic track record on the economy, I think he would lose, but it looks to me like the Romney campaign is doing everything in their power to move the discussion to other issues, much to their disadvantage. Romney came out and said he's not going to release any more tax returns, and the democrats aren't going to let go of that issue. As voters start paying more attention, and as we get closer to fall, I think it's really going to hurt him. He looks like he's hiding something--that's why so many major R's are pleading with him to just put the returns out there and move on.

I've said this on other threads, but I think Paul Ryan was a risky and most likely desperate choice by the Romney campaign. He brings absolutely nothing to the table but his tea party credentials--the Ryan Plan--which tells me that Romney was either afraid of losing his base and facing a nightmare at convention, or that there were big strings attached to his funding from major donors, and they're calling the shots. Ryan's pick solidifies him with his own base, but that's about it. Because Romney doesn't have a strong identity on his own, and Ryan does, Ryan is going to suck the air out of the room in terms of the policy debate--this election is going to be about making deep cuts to social security and medicare instead of job creation. They're not going to win on that.

The good side is that we're actually going to have a debate in this country over what we want America to look like, and which direction we want to go. It's a discussion that needs to happen, and the Ryan plan forces the issue. Based on all those factors, and regardless of where polling is at right now, I think this presidential race will probably go to the democrats, unless some huge curve ball comes out at the last minute. I could be wrong, but I think the Romney camp has too many negatives to overcome. The big question is what type of impact it's going to have on the Senate and the House. Some republicans are already running AGAINST the Ryan plan--it's going to be a very interesting fall.
Couldn't rep it, but most intelligent, articulate post of the day!
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Old 08-15-2012, 12:43 PM
 
27,624 posts, read 21,125,541 times
Reputation: 11095
Quote:
Originally Posted by Earlyretired View Post
Ryan is not The Tea Party, he's just another Republican... Ron Paul is The Tea Party...
If that is the case and I've heard that before, why do supporters of The Tea Party support a guy like Ryan? Even the darling of the Tea Party, Sarah Palin, never endorsed Ron Paul, but endorsed Ryan. Ryan is not a defecit hawk, in fact, on the contrary, but he has managed to pass himself off as one. I think that there is a major disconnect, a lot of ignorance and a very fair share of hypocrisy within the Tea Party and this proves it.
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Old 08-15-2012, 01:01 PM
 
Location: South Dakota
2,608 posts, read 2,097,333 times
Reputation: 769
Quote:
Originally Posted by sickofnyc View Post
If that is the case and I've heard that before, why do supporters of The Tea Party support a guy like Ryan? Even the darling of the Tea Party, Sarah Palin, never endorsed Ron Paul, but endorsed Ryan. Ryan is not a defecit hawk, in fact, on the contrary, but he has managed to pass himself off as one. I think that there is a major disconnect, a lot of ignorance and a very fair share of hypocrisy within the Tea Party and this proves it.
The establishment skillfully took control of a real grassroots movement to clean house...

It's ABO at this point... More important is the Senate and gaining more seats in the house...
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Old 08-15-2012, 01:50 PM
 
27,624 posts, read 21,125,541 times
Reputation: 11095
Quote:
Originally Posted by Earlyretired View Post
The establishment skillfully took control of a real grassroots movement to clean house...

It's ABO at this point... More important is the Senate and gaining more seats in the house...
Skillfully took control? I see it as hijacked if a Republican such as Ryan claims to be a Tea Partier. Again why did Palin not endorse Ron Paul? Hasn't anyone from the Tea party base ever put that question to her and others that claim to be part of the movement? Why is the grassroots part of the movement so silent when a guy like Ryan makes false claims? This is what I mean about ignorant and disconnected. It seems clear that the party was hijacked and absorbed by Neocons and can no longer be seen as a party that stands on its own.
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Old 08-15-2012, 01:54 PM
 
17,401 posts, read 11,975,567 times
Reputation: 16155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Versatile View Post
Is Paul Ryan for or against Ayn Rand? - CNN.com

(CNN) -- People don't generally care what politicians read. But Rep. Paul Ryan is different. His fascination with the Russian-born novelist Ayn Rand could spell trouble for the GOP's new vice-presidential candidate. It could put him at odds with the Christian right and the Roman Catholic Church.

It all depends how much you believe that he is in the thrall of Ayn Rand.


He went on to say that "the reason I got involved in public service, by and large, if I had to credit one thinker, one person, it would be Ayn Rand. And the fight we are in here, make no mistake about it, is a fight of individualism versus collectivism.


Paul Ryan can either be an objectivist or a Christian. He can't have it both ways. He faces a serious problem among Christians, moderate Republicans and others who dislike Rand's views if his expressions of support for Rand are believed, rather than his denials.
I'm fascinated with Henry the 8th, but I don't have a burning desire to marry multiple times and behead some of my spouses.

I'm glad, like a typical liberal, you've decided how someone else should act and think. Because you know better than anyone else how they should live their lives.
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Old 08-15-2012, 02:08 PM
 
Location: South Dakota
2,608 posts, read 2,097,333 times
Reputation: 769
Quote:
Originally Posted by sickofnyc View Post
Skillfully took control? I see it as hijacked if a Republican such as Ryan claims to be a Tea Partier. Again why did Palin not endorse Ron Paul? Hasn't anyone from the Tea party base ever put that question to her and others that claim to be part of the movement? Why is the grassroots part of the movement so silent when a guy like Ryan makes false claims? This is what I mean about ignorant and disconnected. It seems clear that the party was hijacked and absorbed by Neocons and can no longer be seen as a party that stands on its own.
Im not real happy about it either...
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Old 08-15-2012, 02:15 PM
 
Location: NC
9,984 posts, read 10,392,719 times
Reputation: 3086
Quote:
Originally Posted by Versatile View Post
Is Paul Ryan for or against Ayn Rand? - CNN.com

(CNN) -- People don't generally care what politicians read. But Rep. Paul Ryan is different. His fascination with the Russian-born novelist Ayn Rand could spell trouble for the GOP's new vice-presidential candidate. It could put him at odds with the Christian right and the Roman Catholic Church.

It all depends how much you believe that he is in the thrall of Ayn Rand.


He went on to say that "the reason I got involved in public service, by and large, if I had to credit one thinker, one person, it would be Ayn Rand. And the fight we are in here, make no mistake about it, is a fight of individualism versus collectivism.


Paul Ryan can either be an objectivist or a Christian. He can't have it both ways. He faces a serious problem among Christians, moderate Republicans and others who dislike Rand's views if his expressions of support for Rand are believed, rather than his denials.
Numerous Catholic Church leaders has denounced his budget as incompatible with their teachings and the gospels.

Catholic Leaders to Rep. Paul Ryan: Stop Distorting Church Teaching to Justify Immoral Budget | Faith in Public Life
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Old 08-15-2012, 03:12 PM
 
9,879 posts, read 8,018,970 times
Reputation: 2521
Quote:
Originally Posted by sickofnyc View Post
Again why did Palin not endorse Ron Paul?
Because Ron Paul does not support the "crusade" *unfunded/undeclared wars in the middle east or
aid to Israel for the same named motivation^^^.


The Tea Party - Who Started it, and hijacked it! - YouTube

Now, that Romney is the nominee - most folks I know that were
"original TPartiers" will be voting for Johnson/Libertarian Party

"Don't we remember that when you sacrifice liberty for security, you lose both" - Ron Paul
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