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Old 09-27-2012, 10:50 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,770 posts, read 44,594,609 times
Reputation: 13621

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Quote:
Originally Posted by plates View Post
So Mitt's effective tax rate of 14% (which his accountants had to tweak to get there) is more than an average American's tax rate of over 25%.
The average American had an effective federal tax rate (income and payroll taxes) of 11.21% or less. That's LESS than Mitt paid. In fact, the bottom 90% paid LESS than Mitt did...

Taking the IRS data on KNOWN average effective federal income tax rates for each income group:

Top 1% pays an effective federal income tax rate of 24.01%
Top 5% pays a rate of 20.46%
Top 5-10% pays a rate of 11.36%
Top 10-25% pays a rate of 8.25%
Top 25-50% pays a rate of 5.56%
IRS: Effective Federal Income Tax Rates By Income Level

Let's add the 5.65% (4.2% SS + 1.45% Medicare) payroll tax to all of the bottom 90%, all the while acknowledging that many of those in the top 10% ALSO pay payroll taxes. The average total effective federal tax rates of the bottom 90% would be:

Top 10-25% pays a rate of 13.90%
Top 25-50% pays a rate of 11.21%
Bottom 50% pays a rate of 7.5% (1.85% effective federal income tax rate + 5.65% payroll tax)

NONE of the bottom 90% has an average total effective federal tax rate that is more than the 15% capital gains tax rate.

And furthermore, the capital gains earnings were ALREADY TAXED at the corporate level whereas employees' salaries are tax deductible as a business expense which is NOT taxed at the corporate level.
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Old 09-27-2012, 11:23 PM
 
Location: not Chicagoland
1,202 posts, read 1,247,691 times
Reputation: 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
The average American had an effective federal tax rate (income and payroll taxes) of 11.21% or less. That's LESS than Mitt paid. In fact, the bottom 90% paid LESS than Mitt did...

Taking the IRS data on KNOWN average effective federal income tax rates for each income group:

Top 1% pays an effective federal income tax rate of 24.01%
Top 5% pays a rate of 20.46%
Top 5-10% pays a rate of 11.36%
Top 10-25% pays a rate of 8.25%
Top 25-50% pays a rate of 5.56%
IRS: Effective Federal Income Tax Rates By Income Level

Let's add the 5.65% (4.2% SS + 1.45% Medicare) payroll tax to all of the bottom 90%, all the while acknowledging that many of those in the top 10% ALSO pay payroll taxes. The average total effective federal tax rates of the bottom 90% would be:

Top 10-25% pays a rate of 13.90%
Top 25-50% pays a rate of 11.21%
Bottom 50% pays a rate of 7.5% (1.85% effective federal income tax rate + 5.65% payroll tax)

NONE of the bottom 90% has an average total effective federal tax rate that is more than the 15% capital gains tax rate.

And furthermore, the capital gains earnings were ALREADY TAXED at the corporate level whereas employees' salaries are tax deductible as a business expense which is NOT taxed at the corporate level.
Well I guess with your great source (see "I said so") it has to be true.
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Old 09-28-2012, 09:14 PM
 
Location: The Land of Reason
13,221 posts, read 12,293,637 times
Reputation: 3554
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
You DID look at the IRS data I posted, right? And at the CBO data posted by the Chairman of the Economics Department at Harvard University?

Perhaps you can tell us why you believe your "opinion" is correct and the IRS and the CBO are wrong.

Let's hear it...

Ok, so with all of that being said, cutting people off is going to help who especially when their are no jobs to be had? I have no probelm putting time limits on assistance but there has to be a better solution than cutting them off and giving that money to the wealthy.

I really do not understand why all of the sudden the working poor and the middleclass are being attacked for not paying taxes when this has been going on for years? Is it because the wealthy are pointing a finger away from the same people that have been making money hand over fist for the last
12 years?
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Old 09-28-2012, 10:41 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,770 posts, read 44,594,609 times
Reputation: 13621
Quote:
Originally Posted by plates View Post
Well I guess with your great source (see "I said so") it has to be true.
It's the IRS's data, not mine. You tell the IRS you think they're wrong. Let us know what they say...
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Old 09-28-2012, 10:46 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,770 posts, read 44,594,609 times
Reputation: 13621
Quote:
Originally Posted by simetime View Post
Ok, so with all of that being said, cutting people off is going to help who especially when their are no jobs to be had? I have no probelm putting time limits on assistance but there has to be a better solution than cutting them off and giving that money to the wealthy.
No one would be giving the wealthy money.

Quote:
I really do not understand why all of the sudden the working poor and the middleclass are being attacked for not paying taxes when this has been going on for years? Is it because the wealthy are pointing a finger away from the same people that have been making money hand over fist for the last
12 years?
No, it's because Obama has insisted on attacking the actual contributors for the past 3.5 years, and we're sick of it. We pay. The low and middle income earners don't. Make them pay, too. Quit freeloading. Everyone pay their fair share. That means EVERY INCOME EARNER pays.
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Old 09-28-2012, 11:09 PM
 
Location: not Chicagoland
1,202 posts, read 1,247,691 times
Reputation: 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
It's the IRS's data, not mine. You tell the IRS you think they're wrong. Let us know what they say...
That's why you provided a source. Oh, wait, you never do.
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Old 09-28-2012, 11:17 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,770 posts, read 44,594,609 times
Reputation: 13621
Quote:
Originally Posted by plates View Post
That's why you provided a source. Oh, wait, you never do.
Actually, I did:
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Read the link. Note that it specifically says: "Source: Internal Revenue Service"

I post a LOT of sources to document what I say in my posts.

I hope you realize you're destroying your own credibility by posting nonsense that's easily proven false.
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Old 09-29-2012, 12:01 AM
 
Location: not Chicagoland
1,202 posts, read 1,247,691 times
Reputation: 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Actually, I did:Read the link. Note that it specifically says: "Source: Internal Revenue Service"

I post a LOT of sources to document what I say in my posts.

I hope you realize you're destroying your own credibility by posting nonsense that's easily proven false.
Not only were we talking about the effective tax rate, but the group that you linked to has many criticisms about their accuracy and quality.

So since you can't even follow this then it seems that your credibility never was.
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Old 09-29-2012, 08:47 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,770 posts, read 44,594,609 times
Reputation: 13621
Quote:
Originally Posted by plates View Post
Not only were we talking about the effective tax rate, but the group that you linked to has many criticisms about their accuracy and quality.
The SOURCE of the data is the IRS.
That is the IRS's actual effective tax rate data.

The CBO has the same IRS data broken out slightly differently, on page 28 of the pdf ( reads as page 27 on the hard copy document), here:
http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/fil...tes_screen.pdf

And here's what the Chairman of the Economics Department at Harvard University has found by analyzing the data provided by the IRS and the CBO:
Quote:
Because transfer payments are, in effect, the opposite of taxes, it makes sense to look not just at taxes paid, but at taxes paid minus transfers received. For 2009, the most recent year available, here are taxes less transfers as a percentage of market income (income that households earned from their work and savings):

Bottom quintile: -301 percent
Second quintile: -42 percent
Middle quintile: -5 percent
Fourth quintile: 10 percent
Highest quintile: 22 percent
Top one percent: 28 percent

The negative 301 percent means that a typical family in the bottom quintile receives about $3 in transfer payments for every dollar earned.

The most surprising fact to me was that the effective tax rate is negative for the middle quintile. According to the CBO data, this number was +14 percent in 1979 (when the data begin) and remained positive through 2007. It was negative 0.5 percent in 2008, and negative 5 percent in 2009. That is, the middle class, having long been a net contributor to the funding of government, is now a net recipient of government largess.
Harvard University Economics Department Chairman Greg Mankiw: Most Americans TAKE More Money From The Government Than They Pay In Taxes

ALL the sources, the IRS, CBO, the Chairman of the Economics Department at Harvard University ALL confirm exactly what I've posted.

Quote:
So since you can't even follow this then it seems that your credibility never was.
I know how to read and understand the actual IRS data. Apparently, you can't do either.

Of course, that explains why you vote Democrat...
PEW RESEARCH: Democrats Least Informed
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Old 09-29-2012, 02:33 PM
 
Location: not Chicagoland
1,202 posts, read 1,247,691 times
Reputation: 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
The SOURCE of the data is the IRS.
That is the IRS's actual effective tax rate data.

The CBO has the same IRS data broken out slightly differently, on page 28 of the pdf ( reads as page 27 on the hard copy document), here:
http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/fil...tes_screen.pdf

And here's what the Chairman of the Economics Department at Harvard University has found by analyzing the data provided by the IRS and the CBO:Harvard University Economics Department Chairman Greg Mankiw: Most Americans TAKE More Money From The Government Than They Pay In Taxes

ALL the sources, the IRS, CBO, the Chairman of the Economics Department at Harvard University ALL confirm exactly what I've posted.

I know how to read and understand the actual IRS data. Apparently, you can't do either.

Of course, that explains why you vote Democrat...
PEW RESEARCH: Democrats Least Informed


Using your own words since you don't seem to understand anyone else:

Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Irrelevant, pointless rant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Before you pat yourself on the back for being smugly self-righteous and all , consider this...
You can put out figures all you want but you were not using relevant ones.

It's also funny because I have never stated my political affiliation ever and you don't even know the perimeters of the study that you are quoting. However, since I do know that you are a Fox fan:

Fox viewers least informed
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