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Old 10-26-2012, 10:05 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
31,882 posts, read 34,379,372 times
Reputation: 14966

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
No offense but your post is economic illiteracy. How can government spending be excluded from GDP when the definition of GDP is:



where:
C = consumption
I= gross investment
G = government spending
X = exports
M = imports

Government spending is a component of GDP.

Moreover, it makes no difference from a macro-economic standpoint if GM sells a car to you or it sells it to the Interior Department. e proceeds go into the economy; people are working to produce the car, etc. Those people take their earnings and spend it in the economy.
I haven't seen that formula on a board since my freshman year. When "I" is down (because of a once a century financial collapse), then one of those variables has got to pick up the slack. And a lot of what is referred to as "spending" was really money used to shore up financial institutions that were holding trillions of dollars in counter-party risk. If AIG had defaulted, we would have witnessed something akin to a Mexican firing squad among the world's banks. That may have been enough to wipe out every single pension fund on earth.
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Old 10-26-2012, 10:05 AM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,792 posts, read 13,872,826 times
Reputation: 5661
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post

btw, Obama said if we passed the stimulus bill, we'd have 4% growth in GDP, and we need a 3% growth just to keep jobs in check.
No, he didn't. If you disagree, produce the quote.
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Old 10-26-2012, 10:11 AM
 
12,772 posts, read 7,920,204 times
Reputation: 4332
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotair2 View Post
Your source is as reliable as your posts. You Republicans want the economy to suck. How about putting what is best for the nation first sometimes other than partisan politics.
So I have "unreliable posts" that makes me chuckle, sorry you didn't like the source I happened to pick, how about Forbes...are they reliable enough for you?

Romney And Obama Disagree About Defense. But Without It, Q3 GDP Barely Moved - Forbes

Quote:
Without question, that was driven by Washington, D.C. Government spending rose by 3.7%. Looking closer, you’ll see most of those political dollars went toward defense. Defense spending jumped 13%.

Subtract defense outlays from the data, and GDP increased only 1.36%. Remove D.C. entirely: GDP stayed the same. “Without considerable, temporary help from government spending, GDP would have grown at the same disappointing 1.3% pace in the third quarter as it did in the second quarter,” says FTN Financial economist Chris Low.
You can go back and see in most of my posts that I am A) not republican, and B) not voting for Romney because I despise the growth that I'd expect to see under his administration specific to military spending. No different here under an Obama administration where I despise the growth in military expenditures.

I do believe I am putting whats best for the nation first:

-Less wars/conflicts
-Reduced spending
-Less wounded/dead military members
-More military members home with their families
-Fewer countries and rouge groups that despise us for our foreign policy and military conquests

How are those "partisan politics" in your eyes?
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Old 10-26-2012, 10:13 AM
 
12,772 posts, read 7,920,204 times
Reputation: 4332
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
No offense but your post is economic illiteracy. How can government spending be excluded from GDP when the definition of GDP is:



where:
C = consumption
I= gross investment
G = government spending
X = exports
M = imports

Government spending is a component of GDP.

Moreover, it makes no difference from a macro-economic standpoint if GM sells a car to you or it sells it to the Interior Department. e proceeds go into the economy; people are working to produce the car, etc. Those people take their earnings and spend it in the economy.
No offense, but your reading comprehension is lacking.

I said..."GDP is not a great measure of the health of the economy unless government spending is taken out"

GDP is GDP, obviously, its a well defined (as your example points out) measure, I just don't believe it to be a valuable measure of how the actual economy is doing.
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Old 10-26-2012, 10:25 AM
 
69,368 posts, read 63,828,510 times
Reputation: 9383
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
No, he didn't. If you disagree, produce the quote.
I dont lie...


Table 2.1 right from WhiteHouse.gov
http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/defa...n_analyses.pdf

4.6% projected growth

So now with Obamas own projections, this is a TOTAL FAILURE!!
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Old 10-26-2012, 10:34 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
31,882 posts, read 34,379,372 times
Reputation: 14966
Quote:
Originally Posted by t206 View Post
So I have "unreliable posts" that makes me chuckle, sorry you didn't like the source I happened to pick, how about Forbes...are they reliable enough for you?

Romney And Obama Disagree About Defense. But Without It, Q3 GDP Barely Moved - Forbes



You can go back and see in most of my posts that I am A) not republican, and B) not voting for Romney because I despise the growth that I'd expect to see under his administration specific to military spending. No different here under an Obama administration where I despise the growth in military expenditures.

I do believe I am putting whats best for the nation first:

-Less wars/conflicts
-Reduced spending
-Less wounded/dead military members
-More military members home with their families
-Fewer countries and rouge groups that despise us for our foreign policy and military conquests

How are those "partisan politics" in your eyes?
This undercuts the entire conservative argument against "spending." If government spending on the military grows the economy, then it stands to reason that government spending on other things also grows the economy. If you don't have an objection to the government writing checks to Lockheed Martin to design carbon-fiber hoods for Humvees, then you shouldn't have any objection to the government writing checks to green companies to build windmills.
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Old 10-26-2012, 10:35 AM
 
69,368 posts, read 63,828,510 times
Reputation: 9383
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
This undercuts the entire conservative argument against "spending." If government spending on the military grows the economy, then it stands to reason that government spending on other things also grows the economy. If you don't have an objection to the government writing checks to Lockheed Martin to design carbon-fiber hoods for Humvees, then you shouldn't have any objection to the government writing checks to green companies to build windmills.
How does the government spend without
A) Removing the money from the economy or
B) Devaluing the dollar?
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Old 10-26-2012, 10:38 AM
 
12,772 posts, read 7,920,204 times
Reputation: 4332
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
This undercuts the entire conservative argument against "spending." If government spending on the military grows the economy, then it stands to reason that government spending on other things also grows the economy. If you don't have an objection to the government writing checks to Lockheed Martin to design carbon-fiber hoods for Humvees, then you shouldn't have any objection to the government writing checks to green companies to build windmills.
Maybe I'm not understanding your point, I can be dense sometimes, but I strongly oppose BOTH of the items I've bolded above.
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Old 10-26-2012, 10:43 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
31,882 posts, read 34,379,372 times
Reputation: 14966
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
How does the government spend without
A) Removing the money from the economy or
B) Devaluing the dollar?
It's called...

....selling treasuries.
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Old 10-26-2012, 10:45 AM
 
69,368 posts, read 63,828,510 times
Reputation: 9383
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
It's called...

....selling treasuries.
Which is debt that needs to be removed from the economy to pay it back..

Maybe you didnt read the choices carefully, hell there was only TWO of them.. thats bad
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