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Old 11-04-2012, 05:22 PM
 
Location: Jacksonville, FL
11,143 posts, read 10,711,121 times
Reputation: 9799

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Quote:
Originally Posted by florida.bob View Post
I wish you were right about that. It would make it easier to throw them out of the equation and get to a single payer system that we need. Unfortunately, we will have to wait for that to happen. The public will eventually demand it, most want it now.
Agreed. A single-payer system would be of much more benefit to the general population than the PPA. I've heard and seen people call Obamacare a step in the right direction, but in my mind it's a leap away from the right direction. Anything that forces the U.S. Population to purchase a product that has no regulatory cap on cost is, to me, just a faster road to poverty.
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Old 11-04-2012, 05:27 PM
 
Location: Redondo Beach, CA
7,835 posts, read 8,439,670 times
Reputation: 8564
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimRom View Post

The full effects of Obamacare have not hit yet. What the insurance companies are doing now is in no way indicative of what they will do once the PPA is fully in place. Considering that the Insurance Companies endorse Obamacare, I find it highly unlikely that it will affect their profit margin in a negative way. Remember, we are now going to be consumers by force, so no matter what they charge we will have to pay it. I am in no way convinced that multi-billion dollar corporations won't figure out a way to make the numbers look good while reaping massive profits.
You're already a "consumer by force" for any number of things: auto insurance, the public school system, the Right Wing War Machine, to name a few.

The government "forces" you to buy tanks and drones whether you think you need them or not.

The government "forces" you to pay to educate children, even if you don't have any of your own!

The government "forces" you to pay for airport runways even if you're terrified of flying.

I could go on and on, but I think I've made the point that we have a government because one is needed for Public Protections, Safety and Security, and we all have to participate in those public services. Public Health is best supported by a centralized system wherein citizens are protected from unscrupulous practices that could literally cost them their lives, and have been for many decades now. Had insurance been a concept at the time of our founding, our Founding Fathers would have found a way for government to oversee it. They believed very strongly in the role of a federal government that served to protect all people and not just the privileged few.
"Government is instituted for the common good; for the protection, safety, prosperity, and happiness of the people; and not for profit, honor, or private interest of any one man, family, or class of men; therefore, the people alone have an incontestable, unalienable, and indefeasible right to institute government; and to reform, alter, or totally change the same, when their protection, safety, prosperity, and happiness require it." ~ John Adams, Founding Father, in The Federalist Papers, 1776
The Patient Protection Act was a step in the right direction in accomplishing that for our nation.
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Old 11-04-2012, 05:44 PM
 
Location: Jacksonville, FL
11,143 posts, read 10,711,121 times
Reputation: 9799
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jill61 View Post
You're already a "consumer by force" for any number of things: auto insurance, the public school system, the Right Wing War Machine, to name a few.

The government "forces" you to buy tanks and drones whether you think you need them or not.

The government "forces" you to pay to educate children, even if you don't have any of your own!

The government "forces" you to pay for airport runways even if you're terrified of flying.

I could go on and on, but I think I've made the point that we have a government because one is needed for Public Protections, Safety and Security, and we all have to participate in those public services. Public Health is best supported by a centralized system wherein citizens are protected from unscrupulous practices that could literally cost them their lives, and have been for many decades now. Had insurance been a concept at the time of our founding, our Founding Fathers would have found a way for government to oversee it. They believed very strongly in the role of a federal government that served to protect all people and not just the privileged few.
"Government is instituted for the common good; for the protection, safety, prosperity, and happiness of the people; and not for profit, honor, or private interest of any one man, family, or class of men; therefore, the people alone have an incontestable, unalienable, and indefeasible right to institute government; and to reform, alter, or totally change the same, when their protection, safety, prosperity, and happiness require it." ~ John Adams, Founding Father, in The Federalist Papers, 1776
The Patient Protection Act was a step in the right direction in accomplishing that for our nation.
Auto insurance is not a mandated purchase for everyone. If you don't drive, you don't have to purchase it.

As for the others, I am not forced to directly purchase anything by paying those taxes, and the tax rates are something that we have (limited) control over. In the case of Obamacare, we have no choice but to purchase, and we have zero control over what the rates will be. Trying to compare this travesty of a law to the other items you mentioned is like comparing apples and oranges.

The PPA is definitely not a step in the right direction. Creating a single-payer system would have been a step in the right direction, and that was the original plan for Obamacare. However, after passing through the swirling vortex of politics and lobbyists, we ended up with something that will negatively affect medical care quality and availability, while at the same time taking money away from the U.S. Population in order to line the pockets of the Insurance Companies.
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Old 11-05-2012, 02:15 PM
 
Location: Mid-Atlantic
1,820 posts, read 4,492,794 times
Reputation: 1929
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jill61 View Post
I sympathize with your concerns, but they are misguided because they are predicated on our inability to get a clear message out on what's at stake with health care in this country.

The layoffs and closures your husband's industry is suffering right now are because of current health care costs and policies. They're suffering now because of policies in place now, with a broken system that is inefficient and ineffective. The full Patient Protection Act doesn't go into effect until 2014. No one is closing up shop in anticipation of what might happen in more than a year. No one.

Paul Ryan used to talk about health care with the admonition that we need a program that is "patient focused." The problem for him became the fact that he couldn't distinguish a Republican idea of "patient focused" from the already patient focused Patient Protection Act, so you'll notice neither he nor Mitt Romney are campaigning against it anymore.

6.6 Million Reasons Big Insurance Wants You To Believe A Myth - The Winning Words Project

I hope you'll reconsider and continue to support President Obama.
No, they are in anticipation of what will happen.

As is this;


Health Law Spurs Shift in Hours - Yahoo! Finance
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