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Old 11-09-2012, 05:28 AM
 
Location: University City, Philadelphia
22,583 posts, read 11,777,209 times
Reputation: 15398

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I was listening to the Michael Medved show yesterday and he was doing some Monday morning quarterbacking on the election. Medved is a staunchly Republican conservative radio talk show host, but one who is more articulate than some of his colleagues and he tries not to be bombastic or obnoxious.

Now, Medved's take on the defeat of Romney was that it was the fault of "the libertarians" and the "Ron Paul people." I think he believes these people would have voted Republican otherwise.

Some pundits think it was because Romney wasn't "conservative enough" and too much of a wishy-washy moderate like McCain in '08; others say the opposite - Romney invested all his political capital in trying to woo the conservatives that he turned off moderates and disaffected Democrats.

What do you think?

Inquiring minds want to know!

 
Old 11-09-2012, 05:43 AM
 
10,115 posts, read 6,733,681 times
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I think it was a number of things, including an attitude toward the R party in general and not just Romney. The evangelicals and religious conservatives were more of a problem than the libertarians--people can't stomach the social issues they want to push, and the idea of having them in power scared lots of people to death. Romney's economic plan was crap, and his nomination of Paul Ryan just reinforced the fact that he was pushing a radical fiscal agenda that doesn't add up when you do the math. The R party dug it's own grave with its attitude toward brown people over the last couple of years--why would anyone vote for a group that has obvious distain for them? I don't think most people trust Romney as a human being, because of the flip flopping, the lying and the secretiveness during the campaign. I know quite a few libertarians, and they all voted for Romney, even if they held their noses doing it. I think Michael Medved is suffering from wishful thinking and a way to place blame anywhere but where it belongs.
 
Old 11-09-2012, 06:02 AM
 
10,017 posts, read 5,750,802 times
Reputation: 6884
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Park View Post
I was listening to the Michael Medved show yesterday and he was doing some Monday morning quarterbacking on the election. Medved is a staunchly Republican conservative radio talk show host, but one who is more articulate than some of his colleagues and he tries not to be bombastic or obnoxious.

Now, Medved's take on the defeat of Romney was that it was the fault of "the libertarians" and the "Ron Paul people." I think he believes these people would have voted Republican otherwise.

Some pundits think it was because Romney wasn't "conservative enough" and too much of a wishy-washy moderate like McCain in '08; others say the opposite - Romney invested all his political capital in trying to woo the conservatives that he turned off moderates and disaffected Democrats.

What do you think?

Inquiring minds want to know!

I doubt it can all be blamed on those who voted for libertarians. However, I have been struck by Florida: some 44,000+ voted for Gary Johnson. I imagine that virtually all of these voters would have, if Mr. Johnson were not on the ballot, have voted for Mr. Romney.

According to this Florida website, Mr. Obama currently has 60,799 more votes than Mr. Romney:

2012 Florida Election Watch - President
 
Old 11-09-2012, 06:25 AM
 
Location: Eastern Colorado
3,757 posts, read 4,403,966 times
Reputation: 4850
They can blame Libertarians like me all they want, but the fact of the matter is that the republican party no longer follows what the say is their core principal of smaller government. Under reagan and Bush government spending increased dramatically, they are no different then Obama and the other liberals, to the point where cutting spending back to Clinton levels is now considered huge cuts.

Then you have things like the Patriot Act that gives the government even more power over our lives, which along with many other changes have made the American people little more then serfs, and I have a hard time seeing how anybody could really like either party.

Until the Republicans get back to smaller government and quits worrying about things they cannot change such as Roe v Wade then they will continue to lose elections. I want to see them try to protect personal freedom get rid of things like the Patroit act, and make tax laws less cumbersome. If they would start heading that way, they may have a chance, but as is I see no reason to follow them down that path.
 
Old 11-09-2012, 06:33 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,518 posts, read 31,895,350 times
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The numbers don't lie. If Ron Paul supporters had pulled for Romney, he would have won FL, OH, NH, VI and CT, and he would have won the presidency.

But the Paul supporterd were disrespected and shut out by the RNC/GOP, and they did not support Romnney, and it gave Obama the victory.
 
Old 11-09-2012, 06:35 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,518 posts, read 31,895,350 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legalsea View Post
I doubt it can all be blamed on those who voted for libertarians. However, I have been struck by Florida: some 44,000+ voted for Gary Johnson. I imagine that virtually all of these voters would have, if Mr. Johnson were not on the ballot, have voted for Mr. Romney.

According to this Florida website, Mr. Obama currently has 60,799 more votes than Mr. Romney:

2012 Florida Election Watch - President
Many more wrote in Ron Paul. During the primaries Paul got 117K votes in Florida.
 
Old 11-09-2012, 06:35 AM
 
Location: South East
4,207 posts, read 2,978,101 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
The numbers don't lie. If Ron Paul supporters had pulled for Romney, he would have won FL, OH, NH, VI and CT, and he would have won the presidency.

But the Paul supporterd were disrespected and shut out by the RNC/GOP, and they did not support Romnney, and it gave Obama the victory.
I think you are absolutely correct! The far right needs to stop with pushing social issues and realize our society has changed from their antiquated views.
 
Old 11-09-2012, 06:41 AM
 
25,060 posts, read 22,127,548 times
Reputation: 11576
Gary Johnson got about 0.9% of the nationwide vote, so Romney would have still lost with 49% of the popular vote anyway. Johnson was in no way the spoiler that Ross Perot was in 1996. Medved just can't admit that they pushed a failure of a moderate that tried to act conservative. Let's face it, Fox News et. al pushed for Romney the entire time while pretending to be supporting the other non-starters. Romney lost because he's a serial flipflopper, it had nothing to do with social issues, that's just blindfold liberal partisan claptrap. Romney has a written record of being liberal on social issues, and flipflopping multiple times on that since then. No one knew what Romney really stood for, while Obama was hammering into people's heads "you know me".

Obama might have been President with training wheels, but you have got to give him credit for one thing. His career as community organizer is what won this election. Obama is simply a professional motivator for a living, his entire career was getting people mobilized to do certain tasks. Romney never had that. Obama won with his masterful skills at getting his base out to vote that would have otherwise stayed home if Hillary had been running. If this was Hillary running for president, you can bet your ass Romney would have won, she does not have the community organizing savvy that Obama has. That's all it came down to, Obama's supporters actually showed up completely to the contrary, while otherwise conservative Republicans stayed home because Romney failed to woo them.

Paul did cost Romney 4 battleground states according to this: http://www.dailypaul.com/262076/the-...its-true&sss=1

Looking at that, who knows Paul would have probably won the presidency with numbers like this since most conservative Republicans would have voted for Paul instead of a Mormon.

Last edited by theunbrainwashed; 11-09-2012 at 06:52 AM..
 
Old 11-09-2012, 08:10 AM
 
6,460 posts, read 3,407,671 times
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It`s not unprecedented. Ralph Nader did it to Al Gore in 2000.
 
Old 11-09-2012, 08:21 AM
 
9,897 posts, read 6,599,438 times
Reputation: 2519
Quote:
Originally Posted by legalsea View Post
I doubt it can all be blamed on those who voted for libertarians. However, I have been struck by Florida: some 44,000+ voted for Gary Johnson. I imagine that virtually all of these voters would have, if Mr. Johnson were not on the ballot, have voted for Mr. Romney.

According to this Florida website, Mr. Obama currently has 60,799 more votes than Mr. Romney:

2012 Florida Election Watch - President
That still leaves a deficit, so we can blame it all on the RP voters who sustained from voting in FL
because the GOP treated them like ****

There's always going to be a Libertarian on the ballot - we're the 3rd largest party in the US.
We wouldn't waste our vote on either one of them. Obama and Romney have identical foreign policies.
Really, why is it that folks automatically think libertarians will vote Republican,
when we have our own Party and core beliefs.
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