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Old 11-09-2012, 02:16 PM
 
Location: Des Moines, Iowa
2,401 posts, read 3,547,261 times
Reputation: 1433

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SourD View Post
No they are not, at least I hope they are not. The Left wants the GOP to become more like them so they get their way no matter who is in office. All this talk about the GOP needs to "give" more to certain groups is nonsense. Who was it that said once the voting public finds out that they can vote themselves money, it's the end of the Republic? It may have been Ben Franklin. We are witnessing it today.
I said their approach (i.e...how they communicate their message) , NOT their beliefs. There is an important difference.
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Old 11-09-2012, 02:18 PM
 
Location: Des Moines, Iowa
2,401 posts, read 3,547,261 times
Reputation: 1433
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtn View Post


Losing every 4 years gives the Dems more power to embarce more liberal policies.

"David Welch, a former GOP National Committee research director and campaign adviser to John McCain, blamed tea party activists for this hard line.
“The tea party folks who’ve started this race to the bottom, of who can be more conservative, have really done the party damage,” he said. “We’ll always be a pro-life party, but we have to be compassionate about it.”
Election won't end reproductive rights debate | The Tennessean | tennessean.com|
source:
He's an establishment hack. He is part of the problem so of course he is going to say this.

If we stop listening to this guy and his ilk, we'll stop getting Mitt McDole's forced down our throats with assurances they "are the most electable".
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Old 11-09-2012, 02:21 PM
 
Location: Des Moines, Iowa
2,401 posts, read 3,547,261 times
Reputation: 1433
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtn View Post
Certain core beliefs cost votes and are pointless. This is reality: Due to the Tea Party behavior the last few years which IMO was responsible for the absurd, vote costing behavior of primary debate audience members ("Let him die", "Jeer Perry for not punishing children", etc),, Obama won a 2nd term, and he'll end up appointing 1 or 2 SC judges, and Roe v Wade will remain the law of the land. So to include any belief on the issue in the platform is simply to insure the gender gap stays solid. Add in the Latino gap, and truthfully, a negative gap everywhere but older, white men, and the GOP presidential future basis is as archaic as the OTB patron model.
Core beliefs are core beliefs. You'd don't give them up for votes and when you do, you get a milqutoast candidate like McCain or Romney and thus a GOP loss.

The problem with your analysis is that Romney won the much covented Independant vote. It is the base of the party that didn't turn out and volunteer and vote like he needed.
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Old 11-09-2012, 02:30 PM
 
10,115 posts, read 6,736,457 times
Reputation: 3408
Quote:
Originally Posted by capitalcityguy View Post
He's an establishment hack. He is part of the problem so of course he is going to say this.

If we stop listening to this guy and his ilk, we'll stop getting Mitt McDole's forced down our throats with assurances they "are the most electable".
The democrats will love it if you don't change, because they'll continue to win. The moderates are the ones begging you to listen to reason, because they'd like a second viable option to choose from. You have a shrinking base that's going to continue to lose elections unless you get rid of the crazies.

Most people in this country aren't rabid social conservatives, and you will continue to lose on those issues. If you'd come up with reasonable, more moderate fiscal policy that would actually create jobs, you'd win. Most people DO support biting the bullet and making deep and potentially painful cuts in the budget, but the pain needs to be spread out, and they're not going to support you when you propose gutting medicare, and then turning around to give the really rich deep tax cuts and then try to explain it all away with hocus pocus bull crap theories on how they're the "job creators." Businesses hire because of increased demand, and not because they're paying lower taxes. If the middle class carries the entire burden, and they have less money to spend, demand goes down and so does job creation. This no new taxes BS is insane--we can't reduce the deficit, no matter how much we cut, if we don't raise revenues. If you raise taxes too much, you cut growth. It all has to be done slowly and in balance.

I'm all for cutting corporate tax rates (and closing loopholes) because I really do think that will stimulate foreign investment, but everybody has to share the burden of fixing the economy. It shouldn't all fall on the backs of the middle class and the poor, not to mention that it won't work. When you get that, you might have a chance of winning again.

Last edited by mb1547; 11-09-2012 at 02:46 PM..
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Old 11-09-2012, 02:45 PM
 
16,553 posts, read 11,063,395 times
Reputation: 4226
This is the only lesson that needs to be learned.

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship." - Prof. Alexander Frazer Tytler
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Old 11-09-2012, 04:21 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,677 posts, read 16,457,812 times
Reputation: 7274
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfkIII View Post
Let's keep in mind that Republicans didn't lose this election by much. The Democratic agenda is the more popular one...but by the slightest of margins.
From the standpoint of 270, they lost BIG.

Consider this ominous stat: Obama at 332, was the lowest electoral vote total of the last 4 Dem wins, and was 46 more than Bush's 2004 peak total of 286. 286-the best for the GOP in the last 6 tries.
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Old 11-09-2012, 04:22 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,677 posts, read 16,457,812 times
Reputation: 7274
Quote:
Originally Posted by wjtwet View Post
Absolutely they need to understand that spending has no consequence . They need to not give a care about unborn. They need to stop being the voice of old white men , dump them let em die
The unborn issue was not winnable after Roe v Wade. The TP induced Obama 2012 victory further cemented that fact, long-term. Had a wing nut Repub like Bachmann or Newt won instead of Mitt, Obama would have won 400 electoral votes, and Pelosi would be the House Speaker, with Reid having 60 Senate votes again.

Without the TP, the GOP wins 2012 (POTUS) with a moderate candidate. The TP forced the previously moderate MR too far to the right. I do not for a minute think, w/o fear of the TP, he is so radical on his immigration stance. By last Tuesday, I did not recognize Mitt Romney anymore. That is sad.
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Old 11-09-2012, 04:24 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,677 posts, read 16,457,812 times
Reputation: 7274
Quote:
Originally Posted by capitalcityguy View Post
He's an establishment hack. He is part of the problem so of course he is going to say this.

If we stop listening to this guy and his ilk, we'll stop getting Mitt McDole's forced down our throats with assurances they "are the most electable".
He is simply telling the truth. The GOP is the SMALLEST group of voters in the nation. To win, GOP must win moderates by 5, and have no gender gap. The Tea Party obviously flunked arithmetic.
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Old 11-09-2012, 04:26 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,677 posts, read 16,457,812 times
Reputation: 7274
Quote:
Originally Posted by mb1547 View Post
The democrats will love it if you don't change, because they'll continue to win. The moderates are the ones begging you to listen to reason, because they'd like a second viable option to choose from. You have a shrinking base that's going to continue to lose elections unless you get rid of the crazies.

Most people in this country aren't rabid social conservatives, and you will continue to lose on those issues. If you'd come up with reasonable, more moderate fiscal policy that would actually create jobs, you'd win. Most people DO support biting the bullet and making deep and potentially painful cuts in the budget, but the pain needs to be spread out, and they're not going to support you when you propose gutting medicare, and then turning around to give the really rich deep tax cuts and then try to explain it all away with hocus pocus bull crap theories on how they're the "job creators." Businesses hire because of increased demand, and not because they're paying lower taxes. If the middle class carries the entire burden, and they have less money to spend, demand goes down and so does job creation. This no new taxes BS is insane--we can't reduce the deficit, no matter how much we cut, if we don't raise revenues. If you raise taxes too much, you cut growth. It all has to be done slowly and in balance.

I'm all for cutting corporate tax rates (and closing loopholes) because I really do think that will stimulate foreign investment, but everybody has to share the burden of fixing the economy. It shouldn't all fall on the backs of the middle class and the poor, not to mention that it won't work. When you get that, you might have a chance of winning again.
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Old 11-10-2012, 11:11 PM
 
Location: Old Mother Idaho
19,379 posts, read 13,050,331 times
Reputation: 14092
The first thing the Republicans have to do is drop their thinking that only they are the hard-working Americans paying all the taxes and getting no bennies.
As long as they think everyone else is on welfare, a bum, lazy, won't work if it's offered, and only milking the system, they will lose election after election.

It is simply not true and never was, and it sure made them look like a bunch of ill-mannered and ill-tempered whiners. Given that the Republican base are old white men, who already seem to hog the jobs to all the young folks just starting to raise families, this attitude was something that caused a lot of anger and resentment toward their party and their guy.

And since it was always the first come-back answer, each time it was repeated drilled the resentment in deeper. I still see it going on now, so I guess they just can't give it up.
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