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Old 06-25-2014, 06:23 AM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
69,747 posts, read 80,110,186 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clb10 View Post
This is what the anti-Obama crowd said before the 2012 election.

Obama won anyway.
not really, I doubt a handful thought the under 30 would support Romney. He didn't have the appeal they are looking for. Yes, people were already frustrated with Obama, but the choice didn't leave them much room. If I remember right, and I am not going to take time to look it up right now, the turn out in 2012 by the under 30, was pretty low.
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Old 06-25-2014, 07:55 AM
 
5,976 posts, read 2,127,608 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nmnita View Post
not really, I doubt a handful thought the under 30 would support Romney. He didn't have the appeal they are looking for. Yes, people were already frustrated with Obama, but the choice didn't leave them much room. If I remember right, and I am not going to take time to look it up right now, the turn out in 2012 by the under 30, was pretty low.
Nope. Voters under 30 made up 18% in 2008; 19% in 2012. Voters under 30 won Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Virginia for Obama in 2012, which together totaled 80 electoral votes, which means it was younger voters that re-elected Obama. (Pew Research; November 26, 2012)

It was anticipated that young voters would not show up in numbers matching 2008, and polls indicated that would happen up until a few weeks before the election, but in the end they showed up in greater numbers than 2008.

Last edited by Bureaucat; 06-25-2014 at 08:30 AM..
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Old 06-25-2014, 11:00 AM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
69,747 posts, read 80,110,186 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bureaucat View Post
Nope. Voters under 30 made up 18% in 2008; 19% in 2012. Voters under 30 won Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Virginia for Obama in 2012, which together totaled 80 electoral votes, which means it was younger voters that re-elected Obama. (Pew Research; November 26, 2012)

It was anticipated that young voters would not show up in numbers matching 2008, and polls indicated that would happen up until a few weeks before the election, but in the end they showed up in greater numbers than 2008.
thanks for taking the time to research that: I did not, I was assuming, based on fewer blacks voting (again I am talking in sheer numbers not %) Do you really think though, with such a little difference in % it had much to do with victories in Fl. or the other states. Blacks helped of course, seniors who supported him in Florida helped a lot, but I really don't think the under 30 in those states had much to do with his carrying those states. Again, though, you took the time to research, I did not. Thanks.
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Old 06-25-2014, 12:55 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,677 posts, read 16,548,835 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bureaucat View Post
Nope. Voters under 30 made up 18% in 2008; 19% in 2012. Voters under 30 won Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Virginia for Obama in 2012, which together totaled 80 electoral votes, which means it was younger voters that re-elected Obama. (Pew Research; November 26, 2012)

It was anticipated that young voters would not show up in numbers matching 2008, and polls indicated that would happen up until a few weeks before the election, but in the end they showed up in greater numbers than 2008.
Great job as always. Those kids have greatly changed EC races. It will continue that way, at ever increasing rates.

Of course, Mittens polls showed fewer of them coming. Good thing he was more accurate at Bain Capital than at politics.
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Old 06-25-2014, 01:26 PM
 
5,976 posts, read 2,127,608 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nmnita View Post
thanks for taking the time to research that: I did not, I was assuming, based on fewer blacks voting (again I am talking in sheer numbers not %) Do you really think though, with such a little difference in % it had much to do with victories in Fl. or the other states. Blacks helped of course, seniors who supported him in Florida helped a lot, but I really don't think the under 30 in those states had much to do with his carrying those states. Again, though, you took the time to research, I did not. Thanks.
According to Pew, voters under 30 made the difference in the 4 states I mentioned. One thing to remember though, is that young voters are also more likely to be minority voters. The average minority voter is now younger than the average white voter, so the groups overlap. For example, the white voter average age is about 42; the average Hispanic, about 27.
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Old 06-25-2014, 02:16 PM
 
9,312 posts, read 5,626,662 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bureaucat View Post
Nope. Voters under 30 made up 18% in 2008; 19% in 2012. Voters under 30 won Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Virginia for Obama in 2012, which together totaled 80 electoral votes, which means it was younger voters that re-elected Obama. (Pew Research; November 26, 2012)

It was anticipated that young voters would not show up in numbers matching 2008, and polls indicated that would happen up until a few weeks before the election, but in the end they showed up in greater numbers than 2008.
And in Florida, at least, where many people had to stand in line for upwards of seven hours to cast their ballots, one must assume, based on your numbers, that a fair amount of them were under 30. Who says young voters aren't engaged?
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Old 06-25-2014, 09:19 PM
 
13,207 posts, read 5,516,653 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
I don't agree with all of Mr Goodman's conclusions, or with the flimsy evidence he offers to support those conclusions. I do think that Secretary Clinton is a combination of conservatism and liberalism, much like her husband was. I think IF she announces a candidacy, and begins to describe her approach to foreign policy, economic policy and social issues, we'll have a clearer idea of where she falls in those areas.

I'm not sure, though, that she's as interventionist regarding foreign policy as Mr Goodman thinks she is. I think if she did become President, her focus would be much more on domestic issues than on foreign policy.
She was the Secretary of State, and the world is in chaos. I think she would be forced to focus on foreign policy, whether she likes it or not.
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Old 06-26-2014, 06:50 AM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
69,747 posts, read 80,110,186 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katygirl68 View Post
She was the Secretary of State, and the world is in chaos. I think she would be forced to focus on foreign policy, whether she likes it or not.
I think DC is right as for her true interests, but you hit the nail on the head as to what she will be forced to debate and it may not be in her best interests. Of course we still really have no guarantee she is running. The more she keep us in suspense the more money she makes on speaking engagements, etc. When she becomes a candidate, if she does, she will be in a different position.
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Old 06-26-2014, 09:56 AM
 
Location: Home, Home on the Front Range
21,225 posts, read 15,390,110 times
Reputation: 11859
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
I don't agree with all of Mr Goodman's conclusions, or with the flimsy evidence he offers to support those conclusions. I do think that Secretary Clinton is a combination of conservatism and liberalism, much like her husband was. I think IF she announces a candidacy, and begins to describe her approach to foreign policy, economic policy and social issues, we'll have a clearer idea of where she falls in those areas.

I'm not sure, though, that she's as interventionist regarding foreign policy as Mr Goodman thinks she is. I think if she did become President, her focus would be much more on domestic issues than on foreign policy.
There are many other examples of her interventionist policies during her tenure as SoS (see link below).

Hillary Clinton’s Unapologetically Hawkish Record Faces 2016 Test | TIME.com


Add to that the fact that she just now decided/realized it was politically expedient to declare her vote for the Iraq War a mistake, which was for me the deciding factor in not supporting her in 2008.
Remember I am an Army mom whose family was directly impacted by her (and others') decision to support this debacle and like the folks shown in the next link, I will not let that pass.


Hard-Core Antiwar Left Not Ready to Forgive Hillary Clinton - NationalJournal.com


And, well, I simply detest the idea of legacy candidates.
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Old 06-26-2014, 10:17 AM
 
39,150 posts, read 23,353,974 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerLily24 View Post
There are many other examples of her interventionist policies during her tenure as SoS (see link below).

Hillary Clinton’s Unapologetically Hawkish Record Faces 2016 Test | TIME.com


Add to that the fact that she just now decided/realized it was politically expedient to declare her vote for the Iraq War a mistake, which was for me the deciding factor in not supporting her in 2008.
Remember I am an Army mom whose family was directly impacted by her (and others') decision to support this debacle and like the folks shown in the next link, I will not let that pass.


Hard-Core Antiwar Left Not Ready to Forgive Hillary Clinton - NationalJournal.com


And, well, I simply detest the idea of legacy candidates.
I'm sure Secretary Clinton was the sole decider of these policies, and that President Obama and his numerous military and diplomatic advisers had nothing to do with these policies.

I think IF Secretary Clinton decides to run, that we will learn much more about her personal feelings and preferences regarding these policies. Certainly while she was Secretary of State, she had an obligation to follow the directions of the President, and to voice support for those directions. Since she has left office, she has indicated that she doesn't walk lock-step with President Obama. That doesn't mean that she's hawkish or a dove, it means we don't know what policies she will devise or pursue.

I didn't support the war in Iraq, either, and I understand your feelings. When I know who is actually running, and have the opportunity to learn what each of the candidates is about, then I'll determine which candidate is most in agreement with me on the issues I care most about, and I'll support that candidate (who'll probably be knocked out of the race in the primaries, leaving me to find another candidate most in agreement with me on the issues I care most about).
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