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Old 12-27-2012, 06:22 PM
 
Location: Pine Grove,AL
21,833 posts, read 10,711,989 times
Reputation: 3979

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Quote:
Originally Posted by wutitiz View Post
Wrong--Ron Paul is a Libertarian.
LP Monday Message: 10 Ron Paul questions | Libertarian Party



Party platforms mean almost nothing; Actually, perhaps it is time for parties to dump the whole 'platform' charade. Did you see the incident with Antonio Villaragosa regarding the Dem platform? Platforms have become a joke. Libertarianism is not as rigid as you portray. It's a pretty broad spectrum in itself.
Wrong, Ron Paul is a republican and has never been a libertarian. Did you even read your own link?

Any party can nominate anyone. The Democrats could have nominated Mitt Romney if they wanted too. Arguing that the 1988 nomination makes Paul a Libertarian is false. It just means they felt he was the best candidate for the job so they through their weight behind him.
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Old 12-27-2012, 07:07 PM
 
Location: Old Bellevue, WA
18,794 posts, read 13,669,414 times
Reputation: 7921
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsjj251 View Post
Wrong, Ron Paul is a republican and has never been a libertarian. Did you even read your own link?

..
Yes I did. If you notice, I quoted it. Again:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Libertarian Party
he is also an Honorary Lifetime Member of the Libertarian Party, and he will remain so unless he requests to have his membership terminated
Anyway since when do liberal Democrats pontificate on who is, and who is not, libertarian. I would think that libertarians can decide that. Who died and made you the executor?
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Old 12-27-2012, 07:16 PM
 
Location: Pine Grove,AL
21,833 posts, read 10,711,989 times
Reputation: 3979
Quote:
Originally Posted by wutitiz View Post
Yes I did. If you notice, I quoted it. Again:



Anyway since when do liberal Democrats pontificate on who is, and who is not, libertarian. I would think that libertarians can decide that. Who died and made you the executor?
If Ron Paul was a libertarian then there would be an L next to his name. Just as being given an honorary doctorate does not make you a doctor the same applies here. It is a very, very simple concept. It shouldnt be that hard to grasp.

Last edited by dsjj251; 12-27-2012 at 07:24 PM..
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Old 12-27-2012, 07:46 PM
 
47,314 posts, read 24,843,047 times
Reputation: 14472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taratova View Post
The black vote was against Mia Love because she is a Republican. And the black democrats ask why their are no black Republicans.. they don't support them that is why!!
There is no black vote for Mia Love. There are no blacks to be against her candidacy in the first place. If there is half a black person in her district besides her, i'd sure as hell like to see it. Please, tell me where he black support was supposed to come from in frickin' Utah?

Please...you don't know what the hell you're talking about. Just showing the usual bigotry.
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Old 12-27-2012, 08:47 PM
 
Location: Old Bellevue, WA
18,794 posts, read 13,669,414 times
Reputation: 7921
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsjj251 View Post
If Ron Paul was a libertarian then there would be an L next to his name. Just as being given an honorary doctorate does not make you a doctor the same applies here. It is a very, very simple concept. It shouldnt be that hard to grasp.

No amigo, libertarianism is about ideas, not letters. Ideas are what matter, not party, not race, gender, not even country.
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Old 12-28-2012, 12:02 PM
 
Location: Old Mother Idaho
19,499 posts, read 13,151,674 times
Reputation: 14224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Senno View Post
Seriously.
Utah Democrats would be considered to be center-right Republicans in another state.
While the state is conservative, it elected some far-rights in the past few elections, and it seems to be swinging back toward the center again. Too many of the far right entangle state legislatures with what I call "vanity bills"- social agenda bills that won't ever pass a court challenge, and are either over-reaching or are similar to previous bills that were already knocked down by the courts.

These bills are common in all the intermountain west states, but Utahans take pride in good effecient governance. They like legislators that are practical, not symbolic in their promises and accomplishments. As such, Utah is the best governed state out here., and it shows; Utah wasn't hit as hard by the recession as it's neighboring states, and has recovered much better.
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Old 12-28-2012, 12:36 PM
 
Location: Texas
23,904 posts, read 10,122,660 times
Reputation: 5348
Quote:
Originally Posted by azriverfan. View Post
Ron Paul has no one to blame but himself. The man behaves so brash and cavalier which turns a lot of people off. He has brilliant ideas but he is a poor politician. If he learned how to act and behave more diplomatically and speak in a way that is not demeaning to anyone, he would have probably become a much more prominent politician and would have achieved far more success. No one takes him seriously when he speaks and it's become a comedic act. Paul comes across as a witty yet bitter curmudgeon much like Ross Perot did in the early 90's. Great ideas alone doesn't win elections.

I like Ron Paul but knew he would never win anything because of the way he represents himself. Perhaps one day there will be a libertarian who carries himself much better similar to Paul Ryan of Wisconsin. I think the country is naturally more in line with libertarian views and don't realize it because the libertarian face has been Ron Paul.
AZ this is one of the dumbest things I've heard about Ron Paul personality wise. Understood how uninformed people make rash comments, not saying you are or are not as far as his policies go, but to say he's a bitter curmudgen? That's absurd.

Then I see the name of that buffoon Paul Ryan whose budget did nothing to pay down the debt OR decrease the budget. You fell for the hype along with the other lemmings when they were TOLD Ryan is intelligent on economics. He's just another snake oil salesman and was exposed as such when his budget came out.
Krugman finally got one correct when he said
"The plan's a fraud," he said on Sunday. "The plan is a big bunch of tax cuts, some specified spending cuts, basically for poor people, and then a huge magic asterisk which is supposed to turn into a deficit reduction plan, but, in fact, if you look what's actually in it, it's a deficit-increasing plan."

I make jokes about MTA and Krugman, who are at least consistent in their beliefs, finally getting something right. But the truth is the truth, it doesn't matter who said it. Principle over party.
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Old 12-28-2012, 02:39 PM
 
6,805 posts, read 4,795,476 times
Reputation: 1911
Quote:
Originally Posted by banjomike View Post
Utah Democrats would be considered to be center-right Republicans in another state.
While the state is conservative, it elected some far-rights in the past few elections, and it seems to be swinging back toward the center again. Too many of the far right entangle state legislatures with what I call "vanity bills"- social agenda bills that won't ever pass a court challenge, and are either over-reaching or are similar to previous bills that were already knocked down by the courts.

These bills are common in all the intermountain west states, but Utahans take pride in good effecient governance. They like legislators that are practical, not symbolic in their promises and accomplishments. As such, Utah is the best governed state out here., and it shows; Utah wasn't hit as hard by the recession as it's neighboring states, and has recovered much better.
Hello from a moderate Californian in the conservative Central Valley.

My dad's best man at his wedding is a Mormon, and is a retired principal in Utah. He has told dad he votes demo locally and republican nationally, but didn't really explain the logic behind it. Makes sense to him though, so I take him at his word that it's what he thinks is best for Utah.

My cousin is married to a Mormon, and has a large extended family. He moved from Idaho to Utah to do construction work for the Salt Lake Olympics and stayed.

I have a better understanding of Utah as a result. Not great I guess, but I don't think Utah is full of racists.

My own experience with Utah is stop-over in Salt Lake on a flight to Boise. And visiting when I was 2 when my dad took the family to Ogden to visit his childhood best friend.

I read Mia Love's postions, and peg her at extreme far right, wanting to do such things as eliminate school lunch programs, while not touching the defense department as she claimed to lack expertise in that specific department.

I also understand Demos are largely center right, having pushed Repubs to the far, far right. The true left, such as greens have issues with demos in this regard.

I wouldn't have voted for Mia Love if presented with her name on my ballot.
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Old 12-28-2012, 02:45 PM
 
Location: Pine Grove,AL
21,833 posts, read 10,711,989 times
Reputation: 3979
Quote:
Originally Posted by wutitiz View Post
No amigo, libertarianism is about ideas, not letters. Ideas are what matter, not party, not race, gender, not even country.
None of which makes Ron Paul a libertarian.
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Old 12-28-2012, 03:53 PM
 
Location: Old Mother Idaho
19,499 posts, read 13,151,674 times
Reputation: 14224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Senno View Post
Hello from a moderate Californian in the conservative Central Valley.

My dad's best man at his wedding is a Mormon, and is a retired principal in Utah. He has told dad he votes demo locally and republican nationally, but didn't really explain the logic behind it. Makes sense to him though, so I take him at his word that it's what he thinks is best for Utah.

My cousin is married to a Mormon, and has a large extended family. He moved from Idaho to Utah to do construction work for the Salt Lake Olympics and stayed.

I have a better understanding of Utah as a result. Not great I guess, but I don't think Utah is full of racists.

My own experience with Utah is stop-over in Salt Lake on a flight to Boise. And visiting when I was 2 when my dad took the family to Ogden to visit his childhood best friend.

I read Mia Love's postions, and peg her at extreme far right, wanting to do such things as eliminate school lunch programs, while not touching the defense department as she claimed to lack expertise in that specific department.

I also understand Demos are largely center right, having pushed Repubs to the far, far right. The true left, such as greens have issues with demos in this regard.

I wouldn't have voted for Mia Love if presented with her name on my ballot.
Yup. The Democratic party came to me, not the other way around. I was once a Republican. As the Democrats slowly dropped their more radical liberalism and became a more centrist/conservative party, the Republicans kept sliding further and further to the rightward edge of the spectrum and left me behind as a moderate. i wasted my vote twice with independents, populists and Libertarians, and became a Democrat when it was the only party that reflected my beliefs.

I'm more liberal now than I once was, but that's mostly because the conservatives have largely abandoned all the non-social beliefs I once shared with them. Most of my friends and family are still Republicans, but I just can't go there any longer.

And my grown kids are all a lot further to the left than I am. So are their friends, and so are my most of my nieces and nephews and their spouses. And recently, when given the choose between a moderate and a far-right Republican, so are a lot of Republican Idahoans.

Idaho has had a good dose of the ultra conservative agenda for a while now, and this election turned away a lot of the politicians who were the creators in the past. Utah and Idaho have traditionally liked a balance of leadership,and your dad's best man is typical of the way a lot of folks think out here now.
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