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Old 11-12-2012, 11:21 AM
 
Location: Yakima WA
3,856 posts, read 4,278,882 times
Reputation: 3155

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MantaRay View Post
Unlimited deficit spending is also a Republican system. Democrats want to borrow money to spend on entitlements and infrastructure. Republicans want to borrow money to grow the global police force, ie. US defense spending well beyond what it takes to defend the US (hence Romney's extra $2 trillion in defense spending).

How do Republicans REALLY respond when someone comes along with true conservatism and talks about reducing deficit spending all around AND wins delegates to the GOP convention based on that message? They quickly get together to find out what rules they have to change to make sure that his delegate wins amount to nothing and that he is barred from speaking at the convention and has to instead speak at a Tampa area football stadium.

So BOTH parties are on the deficit spending bandwagon. You're attempting that Republican slight of hand where they want deficit spending for defense but say they want to cut deficit spending, where they try to get government regulating homosexual choices and marijuana choices but say they want small government, where they say their candidate's government will create 12 million jobs but say that government doesn't create jobs. Why do Republicans' rhertoric on issue after issue differ from the policies they are actually pushing?
Obama spent more than all Presidents from George Washington to George Bush combined. I'm not saying Republicans are innocent in this matter but Dems are much more extreme.

 
Old 11-12-2012, 11:22 AM
 
Location: South Carolina
1,991 posts, read 3,398,343 times
Reputation: 891
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
That debt increase was WAR SPENDING..
Debt increase only comes from two places:

1. Deficit spending in the current year
2. Interest on the existing debt

If you run a war on the credit card (treasury bills), that is deficit spending.
 
Old 11-12-2012, 11:23 AM
 
69,372 posts, read 53,608,091 times
Reputation: 9357
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmqueen View Post
We survived G Bush's rape of the middle class ... you'll live. Like I said, don't worry your pretty little head about it. We've got things covered, so you can continue wringing your hands and waiting for the End Times.
middle class incomes rose under Bush until Democrats took over Congress, and have fallen ever since.

But it does seem like you only want to babble on talking points, and not have a serious conversation.

No answers to where the money will come from? Obamas OWN PROJECTIONS, show the debt will hit nearly $22T before he leaves office. How will we pay the interest on that without taking money from the poor?
 
Old 11-12-2012, 11:26 AM
 
69,372 posts, read 53,608,091 times
Reputation: 9357
Quote:
Originally Posted by MantaRay View Post
Debt increase only comes from two places:

1. Deficit spending in the current year
2. Interest on the existing debt

If you run a war on the credit card (treasury bills), that is deficit spending.
Never stated otherwise. I object to most deficit spending, especially without plans to pay for it..

Where will the money come from to pay for the current deficit spending? There isnt enough rich people in the nation to cover it.
 
Old 11-12-2012, 11:29 AM
 
Location: Yakima WA
3,856 posts, read 4,278,882 times
Reputation: 3155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinawina View Post
I don't think Republicans should become more like Democrats policy-wise. To me that would be bad. We need more than one party... preferably more than 2 at the table IMO, but that's another story.


He's the problem, to me:
Young single woman pays for health insurance, relies on birth control, wants her insurance to cover her pills at no cost (like some plans do with other preventive medicines like asthma meds, etc.)

Republican Position: While you do pay a premium for your health insurance, making that particular drug free to policy holders would mean that premiums would go up for everyone as insurance companies have to find a way to offset the costs. Since we feel there are currently many venues through which to find cheap birth control, and since one of our core values is that people should handle as many issues themselves for as possible without spreading the burden to others, we are against that particular policy.

Republican Message Machine:
You are a sl*t who wants everyone to pay for all the sex you are having. Mooching immoral wh*re. You have an entitlement mentality and are destroying the country. **The faithful cheer and chant, "You told her!"**

You could write something like this on every issue. Its not the policy, its the message.
Personally I'm a conservative who doesn't have a problem with birth control. I would rather the government pay for birth control than welfare for unwanted children (or wanted children for that matter).
 
Old 11-12-2012, 11:33 AM
 
Location: South Carolina
1,991 posts, read 3,398,343 times
Reputation: 891
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay F View Post
Obama spent more than all Presidents from George Washington to George Bush combined. I'm not saying Republicans are innocent in this matter but Dems are much more extreme.
Deficit spending is NEEDED during recessions to avoid what Greece is going through. Economists conclude that you tend to avoid freefall when you deficit spend during recessions. Why? Recessions mean private sector job losses. So either you freefall to the bottom of that without raising government spending OR you deficit spend to create government jobs and private contractor jobs to the government to offset the private sector losses. Offsetting the private sector losses puts more money in more people's hands to spend into the economy. Not offsetting the losses and opting to NOT deficit spend in order to be fiscally responsible means freefall- fewer people with jobs spending money into the economy, thus more economic freefall.
 
Old 11-12-2012, 11:35 AM
 
Location: Yakima WA
3,856 posts, read 4,278,882 times
Reputation: 3155
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
middle class incomes rose under Bush until Democrats took over Congress, and have fallen ever since.

But it does seem like you only want to babble on talking points, and not have a serious conversation.

No answers to where the money will come from? Obamas OWN PROJECTIONS, show the debt will hit nearly $22T before he leaves office. How will we pay the interest on that without taking money from the poor?
Another way deficit spending hurts the poor is inflation. When you keep printing money each dollar is worth less. Look at how gas and food prices have gone through the roof over the past 4 years. The middle class get's hit even harder than the poor because they have to deal with inflation, pay taxes, and unlike the poor generally don't get handouts.
 
Old 11-12-2012, 11:39 AM
 
Location: Yakima WA
3,856 posts, read 4,278,882 times
Reputation: 3155
Quote:
Originally Posted by MantaRay View Post
Deficit spending is NEEDED during recessions to avoid what Greece is going through. Economists conclude that you tend to avoid freefall when you deficit spend during recessions. Why? Recessions mean private sector job losses. So either you freefall to the bottom of that without raising government spending OR you deficit spend to create government jobs and private contractor jobs to the government to offset the private sector losses. Offsetting the private sector losses puts more money in more people's hands to spend into the economy. Not offsetting the losses and opting to NOT deficit spend in order to be fiscally responsible means freefall- fewer people with jobs spending money into the economy, thus more economic freefall.
That sounds like the way Paul Krugman thinks. Not all economists agree with him.We spent all that money and got little in return for it. The economy is still limping along and now we have all this debt which will make a true recovery even more difficult to achieve.
 
Old 11-12-2012, 11:40 AM
 
4,414 posts, read 3,222,699 times
Reputation: 2319
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay F View Post
Obama spent more than all Presidents from George Washington to George Bush combined. I'm not saying Republicans are innocent in this matter but Dems are much more extreme.
The debt has certainly risen, but that has little to do with spending increases under Obama.

We can make spending cuts and raise taxes (while hoping not to crash the economy by doing so)as a way to address our deficit, but the ship has sailed on reigning in the debt in any short turn scenario. The Bush tax cuts coupled with the economic collapse created this monster and has seen that it will take decades to do anything substantive about that $14 trillion dollars.
 
Old 11-12-2012, 11:48 AM
 
Location: Lincoln, NE (via SW Virginia)
1,644 posts, read 1,710,458 times
Reputation: 1053
Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost View Post
Enumerate major contributors to this deficit spending, so it can be discussed.

I'm not particularly interested in getting inolved in this war of words...you guys are doing well enough. But...to address your question that wasn't answered by einstein I just wanted to supply this. I haven't read it all but it looks like California's revised deficit is $15.7 Billion. Their debt is currently around 382 Billion. Currently that is a debt to GDP ratio of 18.7%.

Maybe this will list some of the major contributors to the deficit (FYI this thing is 94 pages long).

From my skimming it looks like the biggest contributors are as follows:
-Education--Prop 98 funding increases
-Medi-Cal
-Natural Resources
-Labor and Workforce Development
-Corrections

Growth is forecasted but very slow growth. So...I don't know if this will bolster anyones argument but here is the link for further review.

http://www.ebudget.ca.gov/pdf/Revise...getSummary.pdf
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