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Old 11-12-2012, 12:50 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
1,991 posts, read 3,406,330 times
Reputation: 891

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
Where will the money come from to pay for the current deficit spending? There isnt enough rich people in the nation to cover it.
We as a nation have to get to the point where we understand that we have to take 2 big money cutting steps to get back to fiscal responsibility, but take these steps gradually, not all at once:

1. Shore up Social Security by either increasing the retirement age or reducing benefits or both.
2. Reduce defense spending to what it takes to protect America as opposed to what it takes to police the world and operate US military bases around the globe on a perpetual permanent basis.

We also have to add revenue, and this election was primarily a mandate for that. Current efforts are underway to:

1. Increase revenue from the wealthy one way or another- rates increase or deduction decrease.
2. Modify the tax code to spur economic growth in America, which will create more tax revenue, using a combination/negotiation of Democrat and Republican ideas.

The big problem is that everybody is afraid to touch the Social Security issue because politicians KNOW Americans will react the same way Greek citizens have reacted to cutting their entitlements, even though Greeks full well understand that entitlements had to be cut to get to fiscal solvency. Telling Americans you're going to cut Social Security is almost political suicide. The big problem is that everybody is afraid to cut defense spending like it needs to be- Republicans outright refuse to, to HECK with fiscal responsibility, and if Democrats do what is needed, Republicans will scare voters with a message of Democrats failing on American security and they will talk about all the military jobs that have been lost and how horrible a way that is to treat our service men and women. In other words, typical politics.

So what do you do when BOTH Social Security AND Defense spending needs to be cut because they are both bankrupting America, but to advocate FOR cuts means you stir up the anger of or fear from the American voter? There aren't enough rich people to cover the deficits but there IS enough Soc Sec and Defense cutting that can be don to cover it, but not enough Americans willing to accept those necessary steps FOR covering.

So your question is valid, but you won't find Republicans willing to do what it takes, nor Democrats willing to do what it takes, nor enough American voters willing to do what it takes to do away with deficits by the next 4 years, and probably even the next 8.

 
Old 11-12-2012, 12:50 PM
 
5,691 posts, read 5,139,716 times
Reputation: 10203
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay F View Post
Personally I'm a conservative who doesn't have a problem with birth control. I would rather the government pay for birth control than welfare for unwanted children (or wanted children for that matter).
I'm left of center and I agree. To me birth control is much, much cheaper than the alternative for everyone... unwanted pregnancies are expensive for insurance companies, individuals, society as whole. Plus they reduce the amount of abortions. I am for access to safe abortions even though I don't see them as happy things, I want as few people to pursue that option as possible. But that is a different story.

Anyway, my overall point is that I think a lot of the Republican positions on various issues come from a reasonable place even if I don't always agree, but those positions get communicated to the public in ways that are as demeaning at it gets. Take deficit spending. There is nothing wrong with feeling the deficit is getting way too large and so we need to reel back on lots of our federal expenditures, especially entitlement spending. Perhaps one feels that the country just can't afford to offer as many safety nets anymore, and that the market is strong enough to absorb some of these costs if people are pushed to participate at a greater level. Lots of Republicans believe there is plenty of opportunity out there if one applies oneself, one may have to assimilate to the business world a little and have faith in the system. But instead of saying that, what comes out is "You people are lazy degenerate moochers!!!! You don't have a job? You suck! You have a low paying crap job? You are stupid. You should have done better. You are ruining the country and go back where you came from! Oh you've been here for generations? Well then the stupid runs in your family, your whole kind is just inferior. Jack*ass." So they send folks running in the other direction.

Last edited by Tinawina; 11-12-2012 at 02:00 PM..
 
Old 11-12-2012, 12:52 PM
 
Location: Cape Coral
5,480 posts, read 5,886,807 times
Reputation: 2190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mephistopheles View Post
Most of the teabaggers that ran (including Allen West) got voted out this time as well.

I
First, stick the teabagger remark up your butt. Second many of the senate elections that the GOP lost were moderates to liberals: Brown,McMahon,Thompson. Cruz was a Tea Party candidate. There were no Romney coattails either. So you are full of it.
 
Old 11-12-2012, 12:58 PM
 
69,372 posts, read 53,765,857 times
Reputation: 9357
Quote:
Originally Posted by MantaRay View Post
Deficit spending is NEEDED during recessions to avoid what Greece is going through. Economists conclude that you tend to avoid freefall when you deficit spend during recessions. Why? Recessions mean private sector job losses. So either you freefall to the bottom of that without raising government spending OR you deficit spend to create government jobs and private contractor jobs to the government to offset the private sector losses. Offsetting the private sector losses puts more money in more people's hands to spend into the economy. Not offsetting the losses and opting to NOT deficit spend in order to be fiscally responsible means freefall- fewer people with jobs spending money into the economy, thus more economic freefall.
Deficit spending can NOT take place without removing money from the economy, nor reducing the value of the dollar. NEITHER ONE is good in recessions.

Bill Clinton CUT deficit spending during a recession, he cut taxes, he cut the growth of spending, and the recession recovered, leading almost to a balanced budget.

To suggest that you need to destroy the dollar in order to save it is ridiculous. Where did you go to school to learn that?
 
Old 11-12-2012, 12:59 PM
 
Location: Austin
758 posts, read 478,452 times
Reputation: 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by gomexico View Post
Redistricting aided both parties, where they're in control. Here in Illinois, the Democrats took 3 U.S. House seats from Democrats ... largely because the districts of the Republican incumbants were changed to favor Democrats who control the state legislature. All is fair in love, and politics.
Well then maybe they should redistrict based on numbers of constituents rather than geographic boundaries. I don't recall the Democrats in Texas ever doing that, but Rick Perry did that because they tried to squeeze Lloyd Doggett out.
 
Old 11-12-2012, 01:00 PM
 
Location: Austin
758 posts, read 478,452 times
Reputation: 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay F View Post
Yes the GOP is in big trouble and now the nation is in trouble too. Look at states such as California with one party rule..spending into bankruptcy and oblivion.

Dems will totally rule this country. But their system of unlimited deficit spending is unsustainable. It will eventually lead to the collapse of the system. Think Greece on a much larger scale.
Think Greece, huh? Think about deregulation and cutting taxes? That's exactly what got Greece into that debacle. With any luck, the GOP will go extinct, and be replaced by the Green Party.
 
Old 11-12-2012, 01:00 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
1,991 posts, read 3,406,330 times
Reputation: 891
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay F View Post
That sounds like the way Paul Krugman thinks. Not all economists agree with him.We spent all that money and got little in return for it.
Not true. Having a banking industry and having an auto industy IS good return. Having a collapsed banking industry getting no government help and a collapsed auto industry getting no government help is a FAR different result from having both industries and them both now being on solid footing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay F View Post
The economy is still limping along
And limping along at 2% growth is FAR better than mired in economic Depression with a collapsed banking industry and collapsed auto industry. Economists conclude that we TYPICALLY have slow growth out of the worst recessions. That's just how it tends to work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay F View Post
and now we have all this debt which will make a true recovery even more difficult to achieve.
Debt doesn't prevent us from recovering economically. Once recovery fully happens, though, we should really learn the lessons of the past and go the Clinton way of paying on the debt and NOT giving out more tax cuts. Once Bush took over in 2001 and decided to cut taxes, the hand writing was on the wall. It was like having to live off your credit card for a couple years and then finally getting a good paying job and deciding that instead of paying down your card, you're going to throw a big party for all your friends, like a wedding reception expensive type of party. Bush outright argued AGAINST paying down debt, even made offhand comments about how it's impossible to pay off all of the debt anyway (because of the structure of treasuries).

But what all this debt will do is make it so that of the budget, more is used to pay off the debt obligations and less is available to invest in America. What will be more difficult to achieve are all the returns that we won't have gotten because the money was not available to invest in America because it was being used to pay down the debt. Americans have to decide what they are willing to do without. Personally, I'm willing to do without policing the globe every day of every year and running permanent military bases all around the globe.
 
Old 11-12-2012, 01:01 PM
 
Location: Austin
758 posts, read 478,452 times
Reputation: 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
The GOP allows EVERYONE the OPPORTUNITY to succeed. The fact that you think these people cant succeed without government says more about how you think about them, than anything the GOP could ever say or do..
Oh really? Well they sure as hell didn't allow minorities the opportunities to succeed when they cut funding for education. They didn't allow gays much opportunities to succeed. In fact, it was the Republicans like Bill O'Reilly who said they wanted "Free stuff," so your strawman argument was short-lived.
 
Old 11-12-2012, 01:02 PM
 
Location: Austin
758 posts, read 478,452 times
Reputation: 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
Obamas own budget proposals have record deficits..
The debt has actually gone down since Obama took office, dillweed. He's not the one who cut taxes and started two wars. I love how the GOP complains about the national deficit, but they're the first to cut taxes. Then they expect it to magically go away.
 
Old 11-12-2012, 01:04 PM
 
Location: Austin
758 posts, read 478,452 times
Reputation: 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay F View Post
All Dems and moderate Reps have contributed to deficit spending. The deficit has especially increased over the past 4 years in order to pay for social programs. The only politicians who did not contribute to the deficit are the ones who voted against raising the debt ceiling last year...they were all Reps..the tea party types liberals detest the most.
The debt has actually gone down. The GOP didn't want to raise the debt ceiling and threatened to run the economy off a cliff while Obama tried diligently to make a compromise. The Tea Party and all the other Reps also wanted to cut taxes and go to war with Iran.
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