U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Elections
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 11-13-2012, 01:22 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,777 posts, read 24,035,399 times
Reputation: 12105

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rggr View Post
Your argument doesn't hold water and here is why.

Regardless of the all of those points and of the left's complaints and arguments against Romney's plan (or rhetoric), according to Gallup, he was seen as the best for handling the economy and the economy was the number one issue.

Your attacks on him or his plan do not negate the fact that the electorate did not vote for the person they saw as the most qualified to handle their number one issue. Whether he actually has the better plan in the long run is immaterial to the question- the electorate saw him as most competent on their number one issue and did not vote for him. Why? That's the question, not whether or not you think his plan is worthwhile.
I didn't. The collective you subscribe with, did. And please do not take polls THAT seriously, Gallup or otherwise. Seriously.

And sure, I can attack him... or anybody for that matter, for assuming me to be an idiot. But hey, you were impressed, so carry on, but be aware that NOTHING here provides a new perspective. Just the same old political rhetoric, coming from a disgruntled right winger. Continue on with attacking Obama, his election and those who voted for him, instead.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-13-2012, 01:22 PM
 
Location: Sonoran Desert
27,963 posts, read 37,950,043 times
Reputation: 17480
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rggr View Post
Your argument doesn't hold water and here is why.

Regardless of the all of those points and of the left's complaints and arguments against Romney's plan (or rhetoric), according to Gallup, he was seen as the best for handling the economy and the economy was the number one issue.

Your attacks on him or his plan do not negate the fact that the electorate did not vote for the person they saw as the most qualified to handle their number one issue. Whether he actually has the better plan in the long run is immaterial to the question- the electorate saw him as most competent on their number one issue and did not vote for him. Why? That's the question, not whether or not you think his plan is worthwhile.
Forget Gallup. It is hard to believe that Republicans are still pointing to their worthless polls. Go look at the exit polls. They will tell you that people understood Romney was a tool of the rich who neither cared about nor understood the problems of everyday people. THAT is why he lost.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-13-2012, 01:26 PM
Status: "Vote out white supremacy" (set 8 days ago)
 
Location: Washington, DC
3,829 posts, read 3,769,086 times
Reputation: 6424
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rggr View Post

The American electorate, on the other hand, took a conscious decision last week to avoid a confrontation with economic reality. The debt crisis, however, cannot just be brushed under the carpet.
No they didn't, they selected the party willing to raise revenue and willing to make smart expense cuts. The last time your party was in charge what happened? What happened Rggr?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-13-2012, 01:27 PM
 
10,543 posts, read 11,694,547 times
Reputation: 2797
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponderosa View Post
Forget Gallup. It is hard to believe that Republicans are still pointing to their worthless polls. Go look at the exit polls. They will tell you that people understood Romney was a tool of the rich who neither cared about nor understood the problems of everyday people. THAT is why he lost.
Okay! A different explanation of what happened! I'm glad to see someone understands the way these threads are supposed to go.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-13-2012, 01:30 PM
 
10,543 posts, read 11,694,547 times
Reputation: 2797
Quote:
Originally Posted by Back to NE View Post
No they didn't, they selected the party willing to raise revenue and willing to make smart expense cuts. The last time your party was in charge what happened? What happened Rggr?
Accordiung to Gallup, they did because based on the evaluation of those polled, Romney was seen as the better candidate on that issue.

I don't have a party, but to answer your point, the Republicans spent way too much and the current adminstration is making them look cheap.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-13-2012, 01:36 PM
 
10,543 posts, read 11,694,547 times
Reputation: 2797
Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost View Post
I didn't. The collective you subscribe with, did. And please do not take polls THAT seriously, Gallup or otherwise. Seriously.
The collective referred to had nothing to do with me. Iwasn't polled. Okay, so your explanation is that the poll wasn't accurate. Why not just say that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost View Post
And sure, I can attack him... or anybody for that matter, for assuming me to be an idiot. But hey, you were impressed, so carry on, but be aware that NOTHING here provides a new perspective. Just the same old political rhetoric, coming from a disgruntled right winger. Continue on with attacking Obama, his election and those who voted for him, instead.
Didn't see any mention of idiots so I don't know why you took it that way. As for me, I posed a question and didn't attack Mr. Obama. Again, not sure why you took it that way either.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-13-2012, 01:37 PM
 
Location: Vermont
10,098 posts, read 10,634,939 times
Reputation: 13466
This isn't a new take on the election, this is simply a parroting of the right-wing claim that the President was reelected by the darker races and others who are dependent on government handouts, but this time with an English accent.

The fact is that the Ryan plan would have done nothing to resolve the deficit for many years, while further enriching the rich.

The fact is that repealing the Affordable Care Act would increase, not decrease, the federal deficit.

The fact is that President Obama ran for reelection largely on the proposition that it is important to raise revenue by raising taxes on rich people, and the voters generally supported that position.

The fact is that American corporations are sitting on unprecedented supplies of cash, and there is no shortage of "funds for investment".

But just keep telling yourself that you were right and the majority of your fellow voters were wrong if that makes you feel better.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-13-2012, 01:38 PM
 
756 posts, read 598,217 times
Reputation: 374
Still basking in the glow of that great election victory

So wonderful to see the GOP in such full-blown disarray after getting their butts kicked ... again.

The f'n con at the gym keeps droning on and on about how they should've nominated Newtron instead of Willard.

LMAO

God I hate that guy...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-13-2012, 01:43 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
1,991 posts, read 3,402,621 times
Reputation: 891
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rggr View Post
This column below suggests that the results of the election were based on the electorate not being ready to face the hard choices involved in addressing the debt. This is interesting given that according to Gallup polls, Romney had the advantage on the economy and taxes (U.S. Foreign Policy Data Roundup: Candidates and Issues) and according to Gallup the economy was the top issue(Economy Is Dominant Issue for Americans as Election Nears). Does this have merit or what do you think explains it?
I think the biggest danger with polling is MISINTERPRETATION. Americans use more than one issue to make a decision in an election on (that is, when we didn't just get into a war). So when you hear that the majority of people gave Romney the advantage on the economy and taxes and that the economy is the top issue, 2 unspoken factors lead to an incorrect conclusion that Romney had it in the bag:

1. When picking who is better, there is NOT a qualifier of one being a little better than the other or one being superb and the other being incompetent for example. So if one is considered a little better than the other and no more, it doesn't show up in that poll question, AND it allows voters to use other issues that are important to them to help inform their decision. Therefore it becomes possible for people to misread Romney having the polled advantage as Romney being considered BY FAR head and shoulders better than Obama rather than Obama being ok but Romney being a little better. And misread it they did.

2. It ignores the demographics and people's stance on social issues and on specific hot-button issues. In this election, it ignored the immigration issue, the Romney 47% daddy warbucks issue, the Romney flip-flop Who Am I issue, and the hot-button auto-bailout issue. A question of what is the MOST important issue does not automatically mean that people's 2nd, 3rd, and 4th most important issues are UNIMPORTANT. But it became possible for people to misread that the economy being issue #1 meant that all other issues were irrelevant or unimportant.

So to lots of people who feel strongly about their top 4 issues, if Romney is considered a little better than Obama on issue #1 but Obama is considered FAR BETTER than Romney on issues #2, 3, and 4, which appeared to be The Auto Bailout, and Illegal Immigration, Gay Equality & Women Equality, and Character (47% & Flip Flop) not in any particular order, then people conclude that the sum total makes Obama the better choice.

Clearly Ohio was considered to be THE pivotal state in this election, even well before election day. And clearly the Auto Bailout and all the saved auto jobs in that state made the difference for Obama in that state. So a person in that state who is an auto worker might believe that Romney would be a little better than Obama on the economy because he's been a CEO and Obama hasn't, but OBAMA SAVED THAT PERSON'S JOB while Romney was seen as not wanting government to provide the bailout money. Obama is seen as a person who cares more about the blue collar guy as a result of that distinction. So that person thanks Obama with a vote as a result and it makes sense to do so. Again, same theme- Romney a little better on the economy in general, Obama BY FAR better on the remaining important issues in that person's list.

People tend to oversimplify polls and tend to use them to make extrapolations. But again the danger in that is drawing conclusions that the polling questions did not explicitly address. A BETTER set of followup questions would have been "For the Person You Did Not Select, Do You Believe They are Capable of Handling the Economy?" So I don't think at all the election was about Americans not being ready to face the hard debt choices. Especially since the economic data showed that BOTH candidates' plans would increase the debt significantly. Plus, performing on the economy is not the same thing as performing on the debt anyway, so again there is danger in extrapolating details from a generic question/answer or from an answer in a different category/on a different issue.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-13-2012, 01:52 PM
 
10,543 posts, read 11,694,547 times
Reputation: 2797
Quote:
Originally Posted by MantaRay View Post
I think the biggest danger with polling is MISINTERPRETATION. Americans use more than one issue to make a decision in an election on (that is, when we didn't just get into a war). So when you hear that the majority of people gave Romney the advantage on the economy and taxes and that the economy is the top issue, 2 unspoken factors lead to an incorrect conclusion that Romney had it in the bag:

1. When picking who is better, there is NOT a qualifier of one being a little better than the other or one being superb and the other being incompetent for example. So if one is considered a little better than the other and no more, it doesn't show up in that poll question, AND it allows voters to use other issues that are important to them to help inform their decision. Therefore it becomes possible for people to misread Romney having the polled advantage as Romney being considered BY FAR head and shoulders better than Obama rather than Obama being ok but Romney being a little better. And misread it they did.

2. It ignores the demographics and people's stance on social issues and on specific hot-button issues. In this election, it ignored the immigration issue, the Romney 47% daddy warbucks issue, the Romney flip-flop Who Am I issue, and the hot-button auto-bailout issue. A question of what is the MOST important issue does not automatically mean that people's 2nd, 3rd, and 4th most important issues are UNIMPORTANT. But it became possible for people to misread that the economy being issue #1 meant that all other issues were irrelevant or unimportant.

So to lots of people who feel strongly about their top 4 issues, if Romney is considered a little better than Obama on issue #1 but Obama is considered FAR BETTER than Romney on issues #2, 3, and 4, which appeared to be The Auto Bailout, and Illegal Immigration, Gay Equality & Women Equality, and Character (47% & Flip Flop) not in any particular order, then people conclude that the sum total makes Obama the better choice.

Clearly Ohio was considered to be THE pivotal state in this election, even well before election day. And clearly the Auto Bailout and all the saved auto jobs in that state made the difference for Obama in that state. So a person in that state who is an auto worker might believe that Romney would be a little better than Obama on the economy because he's been a CEO and Obama hasn't, but OBAMA SAVED THAT PERSON'S JOB while Romney was seen as not wanting government to provide the bailout money. Obama is seen as a person who cares more about the blue collar guy as a result of that distinction. So that person thanks Obama with a vote as a result and it makes sense to do so. Again, same theme- Romney a little better on the economy in general, Obama BY FAR better on the remaining important issues in that person's list.

People tend to oversimplify polls and tend to use them to make extrapolations. But again the danger in that is drawing conclusions that the polling questions did not explicitly address. A BETTER set of followup questions would have been "For the Person You Did Not Select, Do You Believe They are Capable of Handling the Economy?" So I don't think at all the election was about Americans not being ready to face the hard debt choices. Especially since the economic data showed that BOTH candidates' plans would increase the debt significantly. Plus, performing on the economy is not the same thing as performing on the debt anyway, so again there is danger in extrapolating details from a generic question/answer or from an answer in a different category/on a different issue.
This is a good response. I agree with you. It's much more interesting and provides for a better discussion than the typical partisan rage.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Elections
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top