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Old 12-24-2012, 09:37 AM
 
Location: Texas
23,835 posts, read 10,029,518 times
Reputation: 5331

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsjj251 View Post
Ron Paul believes in a couple of things that libertarians believe in, the problem is that for all of his ideals to work, we have to live in a perfect world.
No that is your misguided perception because you refuse to acknowledge his policies work so instead you purposely misrepresent them in order to cover for your big government candidates failures.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsjj251 View Post
He argues that instead of reforming FEMA, we should disband it entirely because the private sector can do a better job. In a perfect world, a private company(or companies) would give away billions of dollars in disaster relief, but this world isnt perfect.
This is incorrect. You really shouldn't discuss his policies when you don't know them.
Leave the money in the hands of the states themselves so they can take care of it. The people in state know better how to run it than someone out of the state. There is less red tape and the ones involved can be held responsible by the people of that state if they fail. That is commons sense that is lost on the big government supporters who want the Feds to raise them from cradle to grave.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsjj251 View Post
I also find it hilarious that he said FEMA is bankrupt. considering that it is only a preparedness and response unit of the government and has no income i dont see how that matters to his argument. Maybe he meant they were spending to much money inefficiently.
I find it hilarious that you think you know what Ron Paul stands for when you are clueless on that subject yet banter on.
The Federal government is bankrupt and has been for many years. How come you don't know that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsjj251 View Post
He proposed getting rid of the Departments of Education,Interior,Energy, and Housing and Urban development.
Alright you got one right. Hurray for the blind dog who finds a bone. You probably don't know his reasons. I'm going by what you've posted here as proof.
hint - if something doesn't work, throwing more money at it isn't the answer.
Is that edumacation or what? (I wonder if you'll get it?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsjj251 View Post
He wanted to cut the top tax rate to 15%. Its 35% now and most of them pay an effective rate of 17% . so at 15%, we are talking about an effective rate of 3 or 4%.
lol You just made that up and the funny part is, it doesn't mean anything. the sad thing is only a couple of percentage points don't matter to you right. Get bled to death much? A percentage point or two can make or break a business.
btw Ron Paul wants to cut taxes for everyone. You probably don't know that either. Just an educated guess based on your uninformed post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsjj251 View Post
i remember reading an article in the Atlantic that said his proposals for cutting government added up to about 40% of the budget, but his tax cuts added up to about 60% of current revenue. He would actually be putting us into a bigger hole.
because you are ignorant on economics. We cut spending AND taxes by 40 percent over 2 years in the early 1920's and saw unemployment drop from 12 to under 4. The problem is out of control spending not revenue. Live with your means, ever hear of that?

Ron Paul wants to cut our offensive military spending by bringing our troops home and by doing so make us safer. Funny thing about that it will also save us a ton of money as well as cause our troops to spend money here at home.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsjj251 View Post
fallacies are nice, but they dont work in sensible conversations.
Then why did you purposely post fallacies about what Ron Pauls policies are as well as silly cheerleader statements with nothing to back it up if you want sensible conversation?
Was it sensible when your big government intervened in the economy? You remember don't you when they said the housing regulations would help the lower and middle class attain equity right? Guess what Mr sensible conversation, the equity of the lower and middle class was wiped out. yet you are for more of the same. Sensible isn't anywhere in your post.
Who are you working for? China?

Last edited by Loveshiscountry; 12-24-2012 at 09:52 AM..
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Old 12-24-2012, 10:18 AM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,712 posts, read 11,026,686 times
Reputation: 5600
In the book "When Prophecy Fails "the authors write about how doomsday cults predicted disasters that never came. But the failure of a prophecy does not cause true believers, fanatics who are invested in the prophecy, to reconsider. That well describes Ron Paul and his followers. They walk around mumbling "gold/inflation/debasement," without any recognition that their predictions have been wrong.

Ron Paul predicted that,

Quote:
An international dollar crisis will dramatically boost interest rates in the United States.

Price inflation and a major economic downturn will decimate the U.S. Treasury.

Inflationary Federal Reserve policies will accelerate, with massive credit creation worsening the dollar crisis. Gold will be seen as an alternative to paper money as it returns to its historic monetary role.
Predictions for an Unwritten Future
The US isn’t in a dollar crisis and interest rates are at historic lows -- in spite of the fact that deficits have grown.

No serious person is looking to gold as a currency.

This is what happened to interest rates after Paul predicted the "dramatic boost" while the Fed triples the money supply.

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Old 12-24-2012, 02:32 PM
 
Location: Texas
23,835 posts, read 10,029,518 times
Reputation: 5331
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
In the book "When Prophecy Fails "the authors write about how doomsday cults predicted disasters that never came. But the failure of a prophecy does not cause true believers, fanatics who are invested in the prophecy, to reconsider. That well describes Ron Paul and his followers. They walk around mumbling "gold/inflation/debasement," without any recognition that their predictions have been wrong.
LMAO
The ones who told us that the Great Depression was coming, AND THEY WERE RIGHT!!!!!
The ones who told us about the dot.com bubble, AND THEY WERE RIGHT!!!!!
The ones who told us that the Housing bubble was coming, AND THEY WERE RIGHT!!!!!***
The ones who told us that bailouts wouldn't work, AND THEY WERE RIGHT!!!!!

*** back in 1979 we were told and given the exact scenario on what happens when the keynesian hacks by pass the free market

Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
Ron Paul predicted that,
"An international dollar crisis will dramatically boost interest rates in the United States.

Price inflation, with a major economic downturn, will decimate U.S. Federal Government finances. (this is an incomplete quote, not surprising)

Inflationary Federal Reserve policies will accelerate, with massive credit creation worsening the dollar crisis. Gold will be seen as an alternative to paper money as it returns to its historic monetary role."


The US isn’t in a dollar crisis and interest rates are at historic lows -- in spite of the fact that deficits have grown.
No serious person is looking to gold as a currency.
LMAO I can actually believe you'd say this. No serious person is looking at gold? wtf Gold has jumped from $400 in 2004 to $1600 in 2012.

The US Dollar has been falling and talked about being replaced as reserve currency. Do you even read about economics?

11/27/12 - In a article, we indicated that the U.S. Census' data on the value of U.S.-China international trade was overstating the growth in the value of that trade because of the falling value of the U.S. dollar with respect to China's currency, the renminbi (or as its often referred to in foreign exchange, the yuan):

Factoring in the Falling Dollar for US-China Trade

Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
This is what happened to interest rates after Paul predicted the "dramatic boost" while the Fed triples the money supply.
First off lets discuss what Ron Paul said and not what you made up.

Price inflation, with a major economic downturn, will decimate the U.S. Treasury with exploding deficits and uncontrolled spending. (you "forgot" the bolded part. hmmm go figure) - He was correct yet again and you are wrong, yet again.

Prices are rising as I proved to you using facts on an earlier post. You said the opposite. It took me awhile to stop laughing as I don't know any place in America where prices are dropping.
I'll repeat myself
10/4/12 - The largest increases were for dairy products, which rose 7 percent in September, their sharpest climb since January 2011. Higher feed costs were a major factor in the increase, and also helped to drive meat prices up 2.1 percent, especially in the “grain intensive” pork and poultry industries, the report said.

Our purchasing power has diminished as I pointed out to you with the decline of 4k in household income over the last 4 years Not surprising you made the same mistake yet again.

Inflationary Federal Reserve policies will accelerate, with massive credit creation worsening the dollar crisis. Gold will be seen as an alternative to paper money as it returns to its historic monetary role..-
He was correct yet again and you are wrong, yet again.

The Fed has increased the money supply dramatically bailing out banks and businesses home and abroad. But I guess according to you that isn't credit creation.According to the GAO audit, $16.1 trillion in secret loans were made by the Federal Reserve between December 1, 2007 and July 21, 2010. The following list of firms and the amount of money that they received was taken directly from page 131 of the GAO audit report....
Citigroup - $2.513 trillion
Morgan Stanley - $2.041 trillion
Merrill Lynch - $1.949 trillion
Bank of America - $1.344 trillion
Barclays PLC - $868 billion
Bear Sterns - $853 billion
Goldman Sachs - $814 billion
Royal Bank of Scotland - $541 billion
JP Morgan Chase - $391 billion
Deutsche Bank - $354 billion
UBS - $287 billion
Credit Suisse - $262 billion
Lehman Brothers - $183 billion
Bank of Scotland - $181 billion
BNP Paribas - $175 billion
Wells Fargo - $159 billion
Dexia - $159 billion
Wachovia - $142 billion
Dresdner Bank - $135 billion
Societe Generale - $124 billion
"All Other Borrowers" - $2.639 trillion


Saving the best for last
"An international dollar crisis will dramatically boost interest rates in the United States. - Again he is correct and you are yet again incorrect. Ron Paul is describing what government will do in order to "fix" the economy. They will use the same methods of government control that the Feds use, interest rates will rise.
I guess you forgot about Volcker "saving" the economy by boosting interest rates to stop the mal investment during the Reagan years? Judging from the economic posts you make, maybe you didn't even know that.
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Old 12-24-2012, 02:51 PM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
69,382 posts, read 79,577,446 times
Reputation: 38711
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loveshiscountry View Post
LMAO
The ones who told us that the Great Depression was coming, AND THEY WERE RIGHT!!!!!
The ones who told us about the dot.com bubble, AND THEY WERE RIGHT!!!!!
The ones who told us that the Housing bubble was coming, AND THEY WERE RIGHT!!!!!***
The ones who told us that bailouts wouldn't work, AND THEY WERE RIGHT!!!!!

*** back in 1979 we were told and given the exact scenario on what happens when the keynesian hacks by pass the free market

LMAO I can actually believe you'd say this. No serious person is looking at gold? wtf Gold has jumped from $400 in 2004 to $1600 in 2012.

The US Dollar has been falling and talked about being replaced as reserve currency. Do you even read about economics?

11/27/12 - In a article, we indicated that the U.S. Census' data on the value of U.S.-China international trade was overstating the growth in the value of that trade because of the falling value of the U.S. dollar with respect to China's currency, the renminbi (or as its often referred to in foreign exchange, the yuan):

Factoring in the Falling Dollar for US-China Trade


First off lets discuss what Ron Paul said and not what you made up.

Price inflation, with a major economic downturn, will decimate the U.S. Treasury with exploding deficits and uncontrolled spending. (you "forgot" the bolded part. hmmm go figure) - He was correct yet again and you are wrong, yet again.

Prices are rising as I proved to you using facts on an earlier post. You said the opposite. It took me awhile to stop laughing as I don't know any place in America where prices are dropping.
I'll repeat myself
10/4/12 - The largest increases were for dairy products, which rose 7 percent in September, their sharpest climb since January 2011. Higher feed costs were a major factor in the increase, and also helped to drive meat prices up 2.1 percent, especially in the “grain intensive” pork and poultry industries, the report said.

Our purchasing power has diminished as I pointed out to you with the decline of 4k in household income over the last 4 years Not surprising you made the same mistake yet again.

Inflationary Federal Reserve policies will accelerate, with massive credit creation worsening the dollar crisis. Gold will be seen as an alternative to paper money as it returns to its historic monetary role..-
He was correct yet again and you are wrong, yet again.

The Fed has increased the money supply dramatically bailing out banks and businesses home and abroad. But I guess according to you that isn't credit creation.According to the GAO audit, $16.1 trillion in secret loans were made by the Federal Reserve between December 1, 2007 and July 21, 2010. The following list of firms and the amount of money that they received was taken directly from page 131 of the GAO audit report....
Citigroup - $2.513 trillion
Morgan Stanley - $2.041 trillion
Merrill Lynch - $1.949 trillion
Bank of America - $1.344 trillion
Barclays PLC - $868 billion
Bear Sterns - $853 billion
Goldman Sachs - $814 billion
Royal Bank of Scotland - $541 billion
JP Morgan Chase - $391 billion
Deutsche Bank - $354 billion
UBS - $287 billion
Credit Suisse - $262 billion
Lehman Brothers - $183 billion
Bank of Scotland - $181 billion
BNP Paribas - $175 billion
Wells Fargo - $159 billion
Dexia - $159 billion
Wachovia - $142 billion
Dresdner Bank - $135 billion
Societe Generale - $124 billion
"All Other Borrowers" - $2.639 trillion


Saving the best for last
"An international dollar crisis will dramatically boost interest rates in the United States. - Again he is correct and you are yet again incorrect. Ron Paul is describing what government will do in order to "fix" the economy. They will use the same methods of government control that the Feds use, interest rates will rise.
I guess you forgot about Volcker "saving" the economy by boosting interest rates to stop the mal investment during the Reagan years? Judging from the economic posts you make, maybe you didn't even know that.
When did Volker increase the interest rates? They were already out of sight when Reagan became Pres. I should know, I was a Real Estate agent at the time and you may also want to check what gold was selling for in 1980 and add a few bucks for inflation... You can continue with your gloom and doom forever, but Paul isn't Pres, will never be and that should be the end of the story...
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Old 12-26-2012, 12:45 PM
 
2,024 posts, read 4,475,685 times
Reputation: 1991
Pellagra Paul was only running for president this time around to build up his son little Rand Paul.
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Old 12-26-2012, 06:55 PM
 
6,805 posts, read 4,776,883 times
Reputation: 1911
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmnita View Post
When did Volker increase the interest rates? They were already out of sight when Reagan became Pres. I should know, I was a Real Estate agent at the time and you may also want to check what gold was selling for in 1980 and add a few bucks for inflation... You can continue with your gloom and doom forever, but Paul isn't Pres, will never be and that should be the end of the story...
How Volcker Launched His Attack on Inflation - Bloomberg
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Old 12-27-2012, 05:22 AM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
69,382 posts, read 79,577,446 times
Reputation: 38711
thanks, that explains it: I see no reference to his raising interest rates during Reagan days. That is what I thought. I was selling real estate in Ca from the early 70s until we moved to Va in 1981. The high interest rates hit the market about 1978. Of course, that is also when CDs were paying 10% and more. This did continue, with a slight increase in rates until mid 1981...
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Old 12-27-2012, 06:54 AM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,712 posts, read 11,026,686 times
Reputation: 5600
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmnita
When did Volker increase the interest rates? They were already out of sight when Reagan became Pres. I should know, I was a Real Estate agent at the time and you may also want to check what gold was selling for in 1980 and add a few bucks for inflation... You can continue with your gloom and doom forever, but Paul isn't Pres, will never be and that should be the end of the story...
Reagan assumed office in Jan. 1981. The below chart is self-explanatory.

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Old 12-27-2012, 08:21 AM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
69,382 posts, read 79,577,446 times
Reputation: 38711
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
Reagan assumed office in Jan. 1981. The below chart is self-explanatory.

are we talking maturiy rates only here, or other rates as well? There is more to this than simply showing a chart, we can all produce charts that will prove whatever. I think the article that was published by Bloomberg, pretty much explains when Volker did what he did...but we all know, you are always right. I guess that is the end of the story....
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Old 12-27-2012, 01:49 PM
 
6,805 posts, read 4,776,883 times
Reputation: 1911
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmnita View Post
thanks, that explains it: I see no reference to his raising interest rates during Reagan days. That is what I thought. I was selling real estate in Ca from the early 70s until we moved to Va in 1981. The high interest rates hit the market about 1978. Of course, that is also when CDs were paying 10% and more. This did continue, with a slight increase in rates until mid 1981...
I was in elementary school singing songs about how bad a president Carter was, strangely enough.

When the kids think the president is a bad president, the countrys in tough shape.

Kids like Obama.

"And a child shall lead them."
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