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Old 11-14-2012, 08:26 AM
 
Location: South Carolina
1,991 posts, read 3,399,640 times
Reputation: 891

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Quote:
Originally Posted by nighttrain55 View Post
Any libertarian that runs in a presidential election would get run off the stage.
Right now that is true, and the reason is that libertarians, IN calling for smaller government, are necessarily calling for the end to special favors given out to particular industries and for less special interest lobbyist influence on policy because their objective is money for themselves and those they represent, not American liberty. And since the holders of wealth and their lobby has SO MUCH POWER AND INFLUENCE in Washington DC, they would line up in droves to help defeat a libertarian candidate.

It's not because libertarians have a message that somehow cannot be defended or is not rational or will not help America. But I will say this- the flaw in the libertarian philosophy is that on economic issues, theirs is not a policy America needs to enact during a recession or just out of a recession. Theirs is a policy best enacted when America is posting consistently strong GDP growth. And I say that as a Ron Paul supporter who voted for Obama both times. Ron Paul's message is the right message, but this is the wrong time for it with us clamoring trying to get back to strong economic growth. A Ron Paul presidency is best suited for when we have gotten back to strong economic growth, but the politicians in Washington (as usual) don't take the steps then to use the growth/increase in revenue to pay down more debt but instead try to spend it or give it away in tax breaks. A Ron Paul Libertarian presidency would have been best suited for 2000, but not for 2012.

But again, regardless of when a Libertarian might run, their biggest obstacle is the entrenched special interest lobby and the money they would pour into the campaign of whomever runs against that Libertarian candidate.
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Old 11-14-2012, 08:28 AM
 
3,421 posts, read 2,494,378 times
Reputation: 1238
Quote:
Originally Posted by no1brownsfan View Post
My advice to you is simple then. If you feel that you are being discriminated against from a certain business, then don't patronize it!!!! I am certainly not going to go somewhere where I'm not liked! It appears that you are the one living in the past, with all of your references to going back to 1950! I'm not from that era! I grew up in a different time, so don't punish me, because of something that happened in the past in which I was not a part of!
Its not just as simple as saying, go to another business. What if most of the businesses are discriminating? What if that's the only business in town, or the best available one? I have to pick up and move because it is so hard to serve a black man? sorry, that's not going to play well in a presidential election.
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Old 11-14-2012, 08:30 AM
 
Location: A great city, by a Great Lake!
15,908 posts, read 9,649,329 times
Reputation: 7449
Quote:
Originally Posted by MantaRay View Post
Right now that is true, and the reason is that libertarians, IN calling for smaller government, are necessarily calling for the end to special favors given out to particular industries and for less special interest lobbyist influence on policy because their objective is money for themselves and those they represent, not American liberty. And since the holders of wealth and their lobby has SO MUCH POWER AND INFLUENCE in Washington DC, they would line up in droves to help defeat a libertarian candidate.

It's not because libertarians have a message that somehow cannot be defended or is not rational or will not help America. But I will say this- the flaw in the libertarian philosophy is that on economic issues, theirs is not a policy America needs to enact during a recession or just out of a recession. Theirs is a policy best enacted when America is posting consistently strong GDP growth. And I say that as a Ron Paul supporter who voted for Obama both times. Ron Paul's message is the right message, but this is the wrong time for it with us clamoring trying to get back to strong economic growth. A Ron Paul presidency is best suited for when we have gotten back to strong economic growth, but the politicians in Washington (as usual) don't take the steps then to use the growth/increase in revenue to pay down more debt but instead try to spend it or give it away in tax breaks. A Ron Paul Libertarian presidency would have been best suited for 2000, but not for 2012.

But again, regardless of when a Libertarian might run, their biggest obstacle is the entrenched special interest lobby and the money they would pour into the campaign of whomever runs against that Libertarian candidate.

Your last point indicates just how much the game is rigged! Follow the money! Get the damn mega corporations and lobbyists out of Washington!
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Old 11-14-2012, 08:32 AM
 
3,421 posts, read 2,494,378 times
Reputation: 1238
Quote:
Originally Posted by MantaRay View Post
Right now that is true, and the reason is that libertarians, IN calling for smaller government, are necessarily calling for the end to special favors given out to particular industries and for less special interest lobbyist influence on policy because their objective is money for themselves and those they represent, not American liberty. And since the holders of wealth and their lobby has SO MUCH POWER AND INFLUENCE in Washington DC, they would line up in droves to help defeat a libertarian candidate.

It's not because libertarians have a message that somehow cannot be defended or is not rational or will not help America. But I will say this- the flaw in the libertarian philosophy is that on economic issues, theirs is not a policy America needs to enact during a recession or just out of a recession. Theirs is a policy best enacted when America is posting consistently strong GDP growth. And I say that as a Ron Paul supporter who voted for Obama both times. Ron Paul's message is the right message, but this is the wrong time for it with us clamoring trying to get back to strong economic growth. A Ron Paul presidency is best suited for when we have gotten back to strong economic growth, but the politicians in Washington (as usual) don't take the steps then to use the growth/increase in revenue to pay down more debt but instead try to spend it or give it away in tax breaks. A Ron Paul Libertarian presidency would have been best suited for 2000, but not for 2012.

But again, regardless of when a Libertarian might run, their biggest obstacle is the entrenched special interest lobby and the money they would pour into the campaign of whomever runs against that Libertarian candidate.
Oh trust me, if you try to defend your policies, you'll get run of the stage. Even in good times, you try to push that libertarian nonsense on to people, the game would be over by the first quarter. Try selling to america the idea of privatization on everything in this country? The media would eat you guys alive.
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Old 11-14-2012, 08:34 AM
 
3,421 posts, read 2,494,378 times
Reputation: 1238
Quote:
Originally Posted by no1brownsfan View Post
Your last point indicates just how much the game is rigged! Follow the money! Get the damn mega corporations and lobbyists out of Washington!
i think you guys overrate the money that is involved in politics. Republicans were spending money like drunken sailors, and got crushed. Your message is simply not something most people want.
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Old 11-14-2012, 08:37 AM
 
Location: A great city, by a Great Lake!
15,908 posts, read 9,649,329 times
Reputation: 7449
Quote:
Originally Posted by nighttrain55 View Post
Its not just as simple as saying, go to another business. What if most of the businesses are discriminating? What if that's the only business in town, or the best available one? I have to pick up and move because it is so hard to serve a black man? sorry, that's not going to play well in a presidential election.

What if? What if? I've never walked into a business where there were black folks being discriminated against because they're black! So your idea that most businesses are discriminating is bunk! Are you one of those people that go into a business and bait them into a confrontation and then cry discrimination? I have to tell you, if I were a business owner, and you come in and start some BS, and disrupt my customers, and disrupt my business, I'm going to throw your a** out! That has nothing to do with skin color! I don't play that "my skin is better than your skin" game!
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Old 11-14-2012, 08:40 AM
 
Location: A great city, by a Great Lake!
15,908 posts, read 9,649,329 times
Reputation: 7449
Quote:
Originally Posted by nighttrain55 View Post
i think you guys overrate the money that is involved in politics. Republicans were spending money like drunken sailors, and got crushed. Your message is simply not something most people want.
Of course they do, which is why I laugh when Republicans try to preach small government. And of course people don't want to hear the message, because they want big daddy gubermint to hold their hand for them!
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Old 11-14-2012, 08:42 AM
 
3,421 posts, read 2,494,378 times
Reputation: 1238
Quote:
Originally Posted by no1brownsfan View Post
What if? What if? I've never walked into a business where there were black folks being discriminated against because they're black! So your idea that most businesses are discriminating is bunk! Are you one of those people that go into a business and bait them into a confrontation and then cry discrimination? I have to tell you, if I were a business owner, and you come in and start some BS, and disrupt my customers, and disrupt my business, I'm going to throw your a** out! That has nothing to do with skin color! I don't play that "my skin is better than your skin" game!
I'm not talking about going in there and being disruptive. I'm simply talking about going in there for service, but I'm just black. I don't know how you came to the conclusion that I bait people into a confrontation, but whatever. Alot of business owners probably aren't discriminating because they are afraid of legal action taken against them.
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Old 11-14-2012, 08:45 AM
 
3,421 posts, read 2,494,378 times
Reputation: 1238
Quote:
Originally Posted by no1brownsfan View Post
Of course they do, which is why I laugh when Republicans try to preach small government. And of course people don't want to hear the message, because they want big daddy gubermint to hold their hand for them!
Or maybe because your idea of how our society would function is pure fantasy and that your guys come off as wackos. I actually had two libertarians tell me we should privatize all public schools and if parents couldn't afford them, they should send their kids to the library to read books to get an education. If that isn't bat **** crazy, I don't know what is.
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Old 11-14-2012, 08:45 AM
 
Location: South Carolina
1,991 posts, read 3,399,640 times
Reputation: 891
Quote:
Originally Posted by nighttrain55 View Post
Oh trust me, if you try to defend your policies, you'll get run of the stage. Even in good times, you try to push that libertarian nonsense on to people, the game would be over by the first quarter. Try selling to america the idea of privatization on everything in this country?
More like selling the idea of getting our federal budget back to good shape and paying down our debt, the idea of getting government out of the way of how people live their lives, whether they want to marry somebody that somebody else doesn't approve of or whether they want to smoke a joint which is less harmful than the nicotene that is currently allowed to be ingested via cigarettes, or the idea that America shouldn't be the world police force, that other nations need to step up to the plate and handle their own regional security- those are ideas that make sense.

Ron Paul defends his policies on stage against Republicans all the time in the primaries, and doesn't get run off the stage. They are so afraid of his policies in fact, that they try to run him out of the convention where he has earned delegates and earned the right to speak. Ron Paul has been on stage with many presidential candidates on many occasions advocating for his libertarian policies, and hasn't been run off the stage yet. I see you are one for exaggeration.
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