U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Elections
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 11-14-2012, 09:50 AM
 
Location: Austin
758 posts, read 476,635 times
Reputation: 185

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by MantaRay View Post
Which seems to be a validation THAT the ideas were good ones if one believes they had the same ideas.

But actually Ron Paul differs significantly from Obama in that Obama believes in heavy federal investment in education whereas Paul wants to do away with the Department of Education as a cost-cutting measure. Also, Paul believes in closing our military bases that we operate perpetually around the globe and bringing those troops home, whereas Obama has not given any indication that he is pushing for reduced US global military footprint in general, just that which was ramped up by the Afghanistan and Iraq Wars. Ron Paul also makes no bones about stating clearly that people should have the right to smoke marijuana as a personal choice if that's what they want to do (just like people have the right NOW to drink alcohol and to smoke cigarettes) but Obama doesn't want to tread on that territory, he's more keep simple possession illegal but go more hands-off on federal prosecutions of citizens for simple possession.

So no, what you say really is not the case about Ron Paul's policies versus Obama's policies. They ARE different. But IMO Ron Paul's personal liberty policies in general are right for America at all times, it's just that his economic policies, budgetary policies, and cutting of federal investment policies are wrong for an America coming out of recession.
Ron Paul is also a strong anti-abortionist and homophobic with a bit of a racial streak in him. Ron Paul thinks we should do away with the Peace Corps and AmeriCorps and end all foreign aid. He forgot about the United Nations and the fact that this is a global economy, and we're the world superpower. The fact that he wants to cut the Department of Education shows clearly how inept he is. Our nation must be educated in order for us to succeed. Like all the other Libertarians, Ron Paul seems to think we can pay off the national debt by cutting taxes. That's like trying to put out a fire with gasoline.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-14-2012, 09:50 AM
 
Location: South Carolina
1,991 posts, read 3,397,919 times
Reputation: 891
Quote:
Originally Posted by no1brownsfan View Post
Hmmm so ideas like getting the government out of the marriage business, or getting out our bedrooms is from another planet? The idea of continuing to fight a failed war on drugs that only serves to benefit the cartels, and other special interest groups (especially the war on weed) is from another planet? The idea of bringing all of our troops home, and to quit meddling in other nations affairs is from another planet?
^^^ THIS! All of those things are exactly what America needs, and prove that the actual STANCES on those policies do not fit people's characterization as "crazy" or "nonsense."

Government needs to get out of telling people who they can marry, needs to stop wasting all this money chasing after marijuana smokers when we have REAL issues to confront like being on a path to bankruptcy, and needs to stop wasting all this money trying to police the globe and trying to do other nations' regional security for them. That is the OPPOSITE of crazy, it is rational, well reasoned, financially beneficial to the American economy and budget, and beneficial on a personal basis for civil liberties.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-14-2012, 09:54 AM
 
Location: A great city, by a Great Lake!
15,908 posts, read 9,642,118 times
Reputation: 7449
Quote:
Originally Posted by MantaRay View Post
^^^ THIS! All of those things are exactly what America needs, and prove that the actual STANCES on those policies do not fit people's characterization as "crazy" or "nonsense."

Government needs to get out of telling people who they can marry, needs to stop wasting all this money chasing after marijuana smokers when we have REAL issues to confront like being on a path to bankruptcy, and needs to stop wasting all this money trying to police the globe and trying to do other nations' regional security for them. That is the OPPOSITE of crazy, it is rational, well reasoned, financially beneficial to the American economy and budget, and beneficial on a personal basis for civil liberties.

Thanks for the props. But somehow that logic gets twisted into libertarians are anarchists, racists, homophobes, blah blah blah!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-14-2012, 09:54 AM
 
3,421 posts, read 2,492,484 times
Reputation: 1238
Quote:
Originally Posted by no1brownsfan View Post
Hmmm so ideas like getting the government out of the marriage business, or getting out our bedrooms is from another planet? The idea of continuing to fight a failed war on drugs that only serves to benefit the cartels, and other special interest groups (especially the war on weed) is from another planet? The idea of bringing all of our troops home, and to quit meddling in other nations affairs is from another planet? Opposing corporate bailouts and too big to fail, hence the government picking winners and losers and rewarding uber wealthy executives on our (the taxpayers) dime for making p*** poor business decisions is from another planet? Furthermore, where are you seeing a surplus? I sure as Hell ain't seeing it.

When most people get into debt, they tighten their belts and cut their spending. Yet our government thinks that the only way to reduce the deficit is to spend, spend, spend. Oh, and print more money that isn't backed by anything further reducing the value of our currency, and causing inflation!
Let me say this, the federal government isn't perfect by any means (yet I wonder why people assume state governments are any better), but we have managed to become the top economy in the world with this awful government that you guys claim we have. The biggest reason we have problems with government is the fighting that we have between two parties. We could have solved the fiscal cliff a year ago if it wasn't for the fact that both sides are trying to appease to their base.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-14-2012, 09:58 AM
 
2,945 posts, read 4,770,451 times
Reputation: 1603
I like a lot of things about the libertarian party. They just need to find a good spokesman. That`s mainly what it`s all about in politics. A good speaker, smart people behind the scenes running the campaign, constructing it, giving it direction, and getting people on the ground to carry it out, oh, and MONEY!. The two parties in control now have an entrenched ground game with lots of money. That`s why it is hard for a third party to get in the game. Those parties are afraid of another party. Especially one that champions individual freedom and smaller government. It will take a lot more years or calamity for Americans to change their ways. But we are slowly getting there and picking up steam. As college kids become successful rich business owners and ceo`s. Their voices will be heard in the coming years and I know a lot of them support the libertarian party. That will get the party the attention it needs. That and the calamity that is awaiting due to our further growing government of bailouts, entitlements, increasing debt, and hatred around the world.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-14-2012, 10:01 AM
 
3,421 posts, read 2,492,484 times
Reputation: 1238
Quote:
Originally Posted by MantaRay View Post
^^^ THIS! All of those things are exactly what America needs, and prove that the actual STANCES on those policies do not fit people's characterization as "crazy" or "nonsense."

Government needs to get out of telling people who they can marry, needs to stop wasting all this money chasing after marijuana smokers when we have REAL issues to confront like being on a path to bankruptcy, and needs to stop wasting all this money trying to police the globe and trying to do other nations' regional security for them. That is the OPPOSITE of crazy, it is rational, well reasoned, financially beneficial to the American economy and budget, and beneficial on a personal basis for civil liberties.
you can do all that and still have the government that we have. The simple fact is, you want to be able to do whatever you want with no oversight and you believe that what you do will have no affect on anybody else in this country. We are a global economy, this idea that we shouldn't have relationships with other countries borders on insane. We're in a recession because we can't agree on the right mixture of republican and democrat policies. For all the complaints about government regulations, facebook, google, apple, etc all seem to be doing just fine, and they were built of garages and basements. Government doesn't prevent you from starting a business or becoming rich, it just sets guidelines on what you can and can't do.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-14-2012, 10:03 AM
 
Location: A great city, by a Great Lake!
15,908 posts, read 9,642,118 times
Reputation: 7449
Quote:
Originally Posted by nighttrain55 View Post
Let me say this, the federal government isn't perfect by any means (yet I wonder why people assume state governments are any better), but we have managed to become the top economy in the world with this awful government that you guys claim we have. The biggest reason we have problems with government is the fighting that we have between two parties. We could have solved the fiscal cliff a year ago if it wasn't for the fact that both sides are trying to appease to their base.

I won't argue about your last point in that both parties are trying to appease their hardliners! And that top economy is slipping. Sorry, but I don't want this nation to become third world, and we are heading in that direction as the middle class dwindles, and more and more people are getting on the government dole. Eventually we're going to run out of money.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-14-2012, 10:04 AM
 
3,421 posts, read 2,492,484 times
Reputation: 1238
Quote:
Originally Posted by spm62 View Post
I like a lot of things about the libertarian party. They just need to find a good spokesman. That`s mainly what it`s all about in politics. A good speaker, smart people behind the scenes running the campaign, constructing it, giving it direction, and getting people on the ground to carry it out, oh, and MONEY!. The two parties in control now have an entrenched ground game with lots of money. That`s why it is hard for a third party to get in the game. Those parties are afraid of another party. Especially one that champions individual freedom and smaller government. It will take a lot more years or calamity for Americans to change their ways. But we are slowly getting there and picking up steam. As college kids become successful rich business owners and ceo`s. Their voices will be heard in the coming years and I know a lot of them support the libertarian party. That will get the party the attention it needs. That and the calamity that is awaiting due to our further growing government of bailouts, entitlements, increasing debt, and hatred around the world.
The libertarians are no more closer to the mainstream than then they were 4 years ago. People everyday become wealthy under this so called nanny state that libertarians swear we live in. I think you guys seriously overstate how instrusive government is. They aren't perfect, but you guys are way over the top.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-14-2012, 10:04 AM
 
Location: South Carolina
1,991 posts, read 3,397,919 times
Reputation: 891
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mephistopheles View Post
Ron Paul is also a strong anti-abortionist and homophobic with a bit of a racial streak in him. Ron Paul thinks we should do away with the Peace Corps and AmeriCorps and end all foreign aid.
I'm more of the Rand Paul philosophy on foreign aid- end it for nations that prove they are against us, or another way of saying it is use their BEHAVIOR towards us as a litmus test for approval of foreign aid. In general, I believe foreign aid is ok when America's finances are well in order. But America's finances are not well in order.

I disagree with Ron Paul's use of government to control abortion stance. I DON'T disagree with any PERSONAL stance he has against abortion. I think it ok to have a stance of disagreeing with women making the choice to abort, as long as legally it remains their choice to make, ie. more civil liberty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mephistopheles View Post
The fact that he wants to cut the Department of Education shows clearly how inept he is. Our nation must be educated in order for us to succeed.
I agree that federal investment in education is critical for our success as a nation. I also believe that the Department of Education is NOT delivering anywhere NEAR a good return on the investment in it. It could be that the DOE does need to be cut and something else created in its place, something that WOULD generate a return on investment. I haven't dug into the details, but it seems that Charter Schools are doing well in areas where traditional public schools have consistenly failed. New Orleans is one example, and Charter Schools only really got a chance to take off there because of Hurricane Katrina. But they are succeeding with the same kids that the previous schools failed with. So maybe we need a Department of Charter School Advancement and College Planning tasked with getting results as opposed to a Department of Education that is a financial drain with minimal actual investment return. From that perspective Ron Paul makes a SOLID point about eliminating the DOE. It's just that I don't agree with No Mechanism For Federal Investment in Education.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mephistopheles View Post
Like all the other Libertarians, Ron Paul seems to think we can pay off the national debt by cutting taxes. That's like trying to put out a fire with gasoline.
Well, we CAN help the fiscal issue by cutting tax RATES. Net taxes and tax rates are two different things. Example, if you cut deductions for the wealthy like Romney talked about but also cut tax rates, then wealthy INDIVIDUALS could end up paying more revenue into the system, while the BUSINESSES who file using personal income tax rates would see LOWER taxes and thus be able to hire more and invest in their business more. Make no mistake, cutting spending by any significant amount, despite all the Tea Party cries for immediate balancing of budgets, is what would be putting out a fire with gasoline- it would crater the economy. Cutting tax RATES for the benefit of business and the middle class while raising tax revenue from wealthy individuals and the economic growth that comes from lower business rates is exactly what we need right now, and is actually what President Obama and Speaker Boehner are working towards to avoid the fiscal cliff.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-14-2012, 10:09 AM
 
3,421 posts, read 2,492,484 times
Reputation: 1238
Quote:
Originally Posted by no1brownsfan View Post
I won't argue about your last point in that both parties are trying to appease their hardliners! And that top economy is slipping. Sorry, but I don't want this nation to become third world, and we are heading in that direction as the middle class dwindles, and more and more people are getting on the government dole. Eventually we're going to run out of money.
There is no way that anybody in this government is going to allow us to become libya, that is insane. Once we compromise, and we'll be back on a pathway to economic growth. The reason why people went on to government assistance, was because we went in a recession, and instead of compromising on fiscal issues, we ended up fighting each other for two years, with each party trying to gain the upper hand. The size of the federal government isn't the main problem, the inability to agree is why we are in this mess.l
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Elections
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top