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Old 11-14-2012, 10:09 AM
 
Location: A great city, by a Great Lake!
15,908 posts, read 9,650,594 times
Reputation: 7449

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Quote:
Originally Posted by nighttrain55 View Post
you can do all that and still have the government that we have. The simple fact is, you want to be able to do whatever you want with no oversight and you believe that what you do will have no affect on anybody else in this country. We are a global economy, this idea that we shouldn't have relationships with other countries borders on insane. We're in a recession because we can't agree on the right mixture of republican and democrat policies. For all the complaints about government regulations, facebook, google, apple, etc all seem to be doing just fine, and they were built of garages and basements. Government doesn't prevent you from starting a business or becoming rich, it just sets guidelines on what you can and can't do.


Who said anything about doing anything to anybody we want? We should be free to pursue our dreams, and success so long as we do not harm others in the process, and without government interference in our lives. Also, nobody said not having relationships with other countries. I believe in friends with all nations, allies with none. We do not need to be the world cop, and there is no need to continue to operate our military bases around the world. We can no longer afford to do so, as it is becoming a drain on us as taxpayers. We also need to put a stop to funding and propping up these radical regimes in the Middle East, who in the end turn against us anyway. Furthermore, we're in a recession because the government won't get out of the way of job growth, because of over regulation, and not to mention bailed out the big banks, under too big to fail.
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Old 11-14-2012, 10:15 AM
 
Location: South Carolina
1,991 posts, read 3,400,012 times
Reputation: 891
Quote:
Originally Posted by nighttrain55 View Post
you can do all that and still have the government that we have.
Yet all that civil liberty to marry who you want and smoke pot if you want, all that not policing the globe, all that not running permanent US military bases around the globe, that is NOT the government we currently have.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nighttrain55 View Post
The simple fact is, you want to be able to do whatever you want with no oversight and you believe that what you do will have no affect on anybody else in this country.
I don't want to be allowed to kill anybody with no oversight or steal from anybody with no oversight or kidnap anybody with no oversight. What I want is for people to have the freedom to do those things which do not take away other American citizens' rights. Marrying somebody of the same sex doesn't take away anybody else's rights, smoking a joint doesn't take away anybody else's rights, and that goes for the ridiculous NYC "forbidden to buy a large soda" or whatever nonsense. Eating bad foods and getting fat doesn't take away anybody else's rights. "No effect" is an overstatement. Lots of people would look on in disgust at a homosexual couple, so that couple being married WOULD have an effect on others in this country- an effect of some people's personal disgust. But you know what, American feedom means Americans just have to get over their personal disgust and if something isn't infringing on their freedom, they shouldn't try to use government to infringe on the others' freedoms just because they have a personal disgust for the things people might freely engage in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nighttrain55 View Post
We are a global economy, this idea that we shouldn't have relationships with other countries borders on insane.
Who said anything about ending relationships with other nations? Who said anything about extracting all ambassadors, ending trade deals and bargaining, ending diplomatic ties, etc.? I'm talking about US MILITARY FOOTPRINT. I'm talking about PERMANENT US MILITARY BASES. Still having ambassadors doing American work, trade deals and bargaining fostering American trade, diplomatic ties to confront humanitarian issues, representation at the UN, THOSE THINGS STILL SHOW RELATIONSHIPS with other nations. Why must you take a position on a specific military aspect of global US engagement and falsely extrpolate it to an All-Or-Nothing question of having any international interact at all? You DO realize how bogus that is to make that assertion, right?
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Old 11-14-2012, 10:15 AM
 
3,421 posts, read 2,494,635 times
Reputation: 1238
Quote:
Originally Posted by no1brownsfan View Post
Who said anything about doing anything to anybody we want? We should be free to pursue our dreams, and success so long as we do not harm others in the process, and without government interference in our lives. Also, nobody said not having relationships with other countries. I believe in friends with all nations, allies with none. We do not need to be the world cop, and there is no need to continue to operate our military bases around the world. We can no longer afford to do so, as it is becoming a drain on us as taxpayers. We also need to put a stop to funding and propping up these radical regimes in the Middle East, who in the end turn against us anyway. Furthermore, we're in a recession because the government won't get out of the way of job growth, because of over regulation, and not to mention bailed out the big banks, under too big to fail.
you are free to pursue your dreams. What is the federal government preventing you from doing. Businesses start and fail everyday. There are people who have become rich since the economy tanked by starting a business. When you speak of no government interference, it just sounds like you get upset that the government limits you someway to do whatever you want.
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Old 11-14-2012, 10:17 AM
 
10,274 posts, read 5,412,826 times
Reputation: 3103
Quote:
Originally Posted by nighttrain55 View Post
There is no way that anybody in this government is going to allow us to become libya, that is insane. Once we compromise, and we'll be back on a pathway to economic growth. The reason why people went on to government assistance, was because we went in a recession, and instead of compromising on fiscal issues, we ended up fighting each other for two years, with each party trying to gain the upper hand. The size of the federal government isn't the main problem, the inability to agree is why we are in this mess.l
Things happen, not because they are "allowed" sometimes, but because they are unavoidable.

Hop in a time machine and talk to people in Staten Island, NY one year ago and ask if they thought that the government would "let them live in third world squalor-like conditions" with no running water or electricity for weeks on end with no hope for a fix anytime soon. I mean we have FEMA in place to make sure that "government doesnt allow" that, right?

Simply put there are things both in the natural world and in the financial world that no government can control, and people need to realize that. In fact some of the tinkering in trying to control said things actually has the potential to make them worse.
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Old 11-14-2012, 10:18 AM
 
2,945 posts, read 4,773,317 times
Reputation: 1603
Quote:
Originally Posted by nighttrain55 View Post
The libertarians are no more closer to the mainstream than then they were 4 years ago. People everyday become wealthy under this so called nanny state that libertarians swear we live in. I think you guys seriously overstate how instrusive government is. They aren't perfect, but you guys are way over the top.
you guys?
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Old 11-14-2012, 10:20 AM
 
Location: South Carolina
1,991 posts, read 3,400,012 times
Reputation: 891
Quote:
Originally Posted by nighttrain55 View Post
My original point was that even in good times, ron paul would still get run off the stage. If we are doing good as an economy, why would anybody change what is working?
What works strictly for the economy does not necessarily work for fiscal soundness. You can have a great economy and still make choices that run the nation into bankruptcy, into Greek-style bankruptcy and thus changes the good economy into an awful depression.

My point is Ron Paul's stances and libertarian stances in general have merit. And not only do they have merit, they make TREMENDOUS rational sense both from the perspective of personal liberties and from the perspective of really being the only policies that get serious about the nation's debt problem. Doesn't mean I agree with 100% of what any one candidate proposes, but nevertheless Paul's policies make rational sense. They are not nonsense.

I believe US government should promote US liberty. That can mean government getting out of the way of people marrying or smoking pot, or it can mean government getting all in banks' business and forcing them to offer APR quotes to mortgage filers so that American citizens can make apples-to-apples comparisons of banks' offerings and choose the option that works best for them- thus ultimately paying lower interest rates and having more disposable money to enjoy liberty. It can mean letting a woman breast feed in public if she wants, getting out of the way of women and men having the same rules apply (if men can go bare chested, so can women if they choose), and it can mean making sure chemical companies don't release toxic chemicals that will give bare chested and clothed individuals alike skin problems. It can mean getting out of the way of restaurants serving supersized fatty foods but also getting in the way of companies forming monopolies. So although there are areas where I believe government should intervene on behalf of protecting American citizens where Paul does not, by and large I agree with Paul's message of increased civil liberties. His message is not nonsense.
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Old 11-14-2012, 03:08 PM
 
Location: Texas
23,831 posts, read 10,019,502 times
Reputation: 5331
Quote:
Originally Posted by nighttrain55 View Post
Whether or not you think obama is a great president, his ability to run a campaign, especially with the circumstances he had, is impressive. He ran a clinic on romney, and that crazy tea party. What do you think he would have done to ron paul and his tin foil on my head supporters? Your libertarian society allows for discrimination. There would be no way he could defend that, especially with the media backing Obama.
Paul would have debated Obama on the issues and destroyed him. Romney was the same as Obama. Paul wouldn't be up there debating on the proper way to run peoples lives.
The only tin foil hat wearers are the ones who think what Obama does works. All one has to do is open their eyes.
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Old 11-14-2012, 03:09 PM
 
Location: Texas
23,831 posts, read 10,019,502 times
Reputation: 5331
Quote:
Originally Posted by crbcrbrgv View Post
Minorities soundly rejected a guy who, by all appearances, doesn't seem to have a racist bone in his body.

Obama would have torpedoed Paul so badly, Paul would have made klansmen seem less racist.
Torpedoed in a debate??? How?? Why?? What policies worked? Not the economic or foreign policies. That much is obvious, I mean to the living.
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Old 11-14-2012, 03:16 PM
 
1,291 posts, read 2,515,914 times
Reputation: 1264
From RP...

Ron Paul: "Secession is a good principle. Just think of the benefits that would have come over these last 230-some years if the principle of secession had existed. That means the federal government would always have been restrained, not to overburden the states with too much federalism, too many federal rules and regulations.

But since that was all wiped out with the Civil War, the federal government has grown by leaps and bounds and we have suffered the consequences, and we need to reconsider this. It’s not un-American to think about the possibility of secession. This is something that’s voluntary. We came together voluntarily. A free society means you can dissolve it voluntarily. That's what the whole issue was about."
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Old 11-14-2012, 04:08 PM
 
Location: Old Mother Idaho
19,374 posts, read 13,036,682 times
Reputation: 14083
Quote:
Originally Posted by teve.torbes View Post
The Dr. Ronpaul could've taken Obama in a walk but the ZOG/UN/Illuminati/G-Unit/Lizard People cabal kept the truth from coming out, like always.

Real Eyes. Realize. Real Lies.
Yup. Real eyes realize real lies. But only in the real world. Conspiracists make up their own reality. Instead of seeing wavy hair and blue eyes, they see blue hair and wavy eyes.
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