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Old 11-14-2012, 10:08 AM
 
Location: Sonoran Desert
28,070 posts, read 38,091,187 times
Reputation: 17584

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
I'm not sure why the OP is a Republican at all. The positions espoused in the OP are much more in line with Democrats.
Oh here we go, back to the divisive "real America" BS again. Haven't seen that language pop up in a while. Do tell us, who are the "real Americans"? And who exactly are the fake Americans? (This is somewhat rhetorical, as we all know exactly who "real Americans" refers to.)

Do you really not get that labeling anyone who disagrees with you as a freeloader, a taker, and not even a real American is not going to win over anyone?
The real Americans are the ones who work and have worked, sacrificed, and served to make this the great country that it used to be. They are not the takers and moochers who have their hand out to the government to give them what they are too lazy to earn for themselves. There are fewer and fewer real Americans, but there are still enough to elect a candidate who truly represents their values and put this country back on the tracks again. It is high time the Republicans get back to basics and nominate someone like that.
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Old 11-14-2012, 10:20 AM
 
47,314 posts, read 24,857,419 times
Reputation: 14472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponderosa View Post
Because Republicans won't nominate a true conservative. Obama won because real Americans did not show up last week. They stayed home because Romney did not excite them. If Republicans misread this message and take a left turn, they are chasing votes that are going to go to Democrats. Republicans need to find their conservative soul again and live by it. That means a presidential candidate who represents their views and not a phony, transparent liberal like McCain or Romney. The makers can take back their country from the takers if a true conservative heads the ticket.
Real Americans, huh?

I'm sorry, but a "true conservative" would've lost even worse than Romney did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GWhopper View Post
I was devastated, but not surprised at all, by Obama's win last week. I posted this the day after and I stand by it:

There needs to be new Republican leadership and it needs to acknowledge and accept some new realities.
  • The American People do not trust Wall Street. Stop trying to hand Social Security and Medicare over to them.
  • You can't run on a platform that strives to regulate who people can marry and what women can do with their bodies, but wants to allow corporations(who you also view as people) to be free to do whatever they feel like.
  • People as a whole do not want religion, any religion, governing policy.
  • Not every minority is here illegally, and not all illegals are devoid of value to our society.
  • Science and information is real. Use it, don't deny it. If it contradicts your worldview, change your worldview.
  • Ayn Rand was a sociopath.

That being said, we as conservatives cannot win the country without espousing concrete detailed ideas on how to fix the nations problems. Entitlement spending needs to be drastically reduced, but how do we provide those receiving entitlements a path to self-reliance and prosperity? How do we encourage entrepreneurship in economically under-developed areas?
Excellent post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiyero View Post
Conservatism does not fly in the 1st World. Anyone who even attempts to go more conservative will lose.

You sound like you'd prefer a place like Saudi Arabia where archaic tradition and Conservatism are strongly supported by the ruling elite.
And that's why they don't nominate true conservatives. They can't win.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponderosa View Post
The real Americans are the ones who work and have worked, sacrificed, and served to make this the great country that it used to be. They are not the takers and moochers who have their hand out to the government to give them what they are too lazy to earn for themselves. There are fewer and fewer real Americans, but there are still enough to elect a candidate who truly represents their values and put this country back on the tracks again. It is high time the Republicans get back to basics and nominate someone like that.
1. It's an even greater country than it used to be.
2. There are more REAL Americans than there's ever been.
3. The American people already elected that candidate last week.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTSilvertip View Post
Kind of funny, but the last 2 presidential candidates pretty much followed exactly what you stated, were "moderates", and by your definition, should have won by landslide.

McCain was big on amnesty for illegal aliens, Romney instituted government mandated health care in Mass.
Both gave lip service to preserving the life of babies in the womb, but have never really been activists supporting the right to life.

Maybe the Republicans should try conservatism next time and nominate someone who stands for something instead of pandering to the left?
Yep, and lose again even worse than they did last week.
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Old 11-14-2012, 11:02 AM
 
Location: Pluto's Home Town
9,995 posts, read 11,296,009 times
Reputation: 5561
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggy001 View Post
Great post.

I think your comments reflect what many of us who are essentially center right or center left are thinking.

Good point. Rather than saying the OP sounds like a democrat or is a transparent democratic plant, we might realize that many people in the center are pragmatists, not ideologues. In other words, we choose our battles. No, we will not end abortion, marijuana use through punitive means. We already failed with alcohol. Single payer is also good, both for businesses and for individuals.

However, you have to recall that move Tea Partiers will view Ex-Vermonter is a yankee, goody goody socialist anyway, right?

Last edited by Fiddlehead; 11-14-2012 at 11:24 AM..
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Old 11-14-2012, 11:23 AM
 
Location: Lincoln, NE (via SW Virginia)
1,644 posts, read 1,720,424 times
Reputation: 1053
The GOP needs a full on Soviet-style purge.

The Limbaughs, Bachmanns, Trumps, Akins, Mourdocks, and Santorums need to find their way over to the America First party or some other fringe where they belong. Mainstream political discourse isn't the place for these characters. Same with the Kucinichs on the left....they need to move along and let the cool-headed moderate pragmatists get the job done.

The US just doesn't have room for idealogues at the juncture.
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Old 11-14-2012, 11:36 AM
 
14,253 posts, read 14,817,403 times
Reputation: 13621
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtn View Post
Because Republicans won't nominate a true conservative. Obama won because "


the GOP got killed amongst women and Latinos.

A true conservative would lose 40 plus states.

We are not a conservative nation, we are a moderate nation.

MR did best in polls when he portrayed himself in Denver as moderate.

Conservatives are America's SMALLEST voting block(27% or so of the nation-that leaves 73% OUT for the math challenged!!). By themselves, they lose. Romney won them by the same margin RR did, Romney won whites by same margin as RR. Since RR, the GOP has failed to evolve to changing demographics. You may bury your head in the sand, but don't complain about the results than, as you are part of the problem.
This ^^^^^^^

Last edited by Jaggy001; 11-14-2012 at 11:47 AM..
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Old 11-14-2012, 11:42 AM
 
Location: Pluto's Home Town
9,995 posts, read 11,296,009 times
Reputation: 5561
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnewberry22 View Post
The GOP needs a full on Soviet-style purge.

The Limbaughs, Bachmanns, Trumps, Akins, Mourdocks, and Santorums need to find their way over to the America First party or some other fringe where they belong. Mainstream political discourse isn't the place for these characters. Same with the Kucinichs on the left....they need to move along and let the cool-headed moderate pragmatists get the job done.

The US just doesn't have room for idealogues at the juncture.
I think we will always have zealots, and they are not all bad. Guys like Ron Paul, Dennis Kucinich, and Ralph Nader have a place. However, we need to realize that pragmatic approaches, that are based on common sense, reason, and a realistic view of where we are at any given point in time, need to dominate both parties. I don't recall the democrats purging pragmatists, but the current GOP seems to be so ideological, that anyone who thinks for themself is attacked. For instance, Chris Christie actually worked with the President and showed appreciation during Hurricane Sandy, and some true believers treated him like a traitor. Truth is, in a crisis, a governor's loyalty must always be first and foremost to the safety and welfare of the citizens. I predict that being a leader will not hurt Christie politically. It is so rare, it is refreshing. Contrast that leadership to McConnell and Cantor, who held meetings just after Obama's inaugeration, and incidentally, when our economy was going over the waterfall, secretly plotting to undermine every effort of the President for political gain-the country be damned. That was loathesome.
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Old 11-14-2012, 11:44 AM
 
Location: Pluto's Home Town
9,995 posts, read 11,296,009 times
Reputation: 5561
[quote=bobtn;26946536]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponderosa View Post
Because Republicans won't nominate a true conservative. Obama won because "


the GOP got killed amongst women and Latinos.

A true conservative would lose 40 plus states.

We are not a conservative nation, we are a moderate nation.

MR did best in polls when he portrayed himself in Denver as moderate.

Conservatives are America's SMALLEST voting block(27% or so of the nation-that leaves 73% OUT for the math challenged!!). By themselves, they lose. Romney won them by the same margin RR did, Romney won whites by same margin as RR. Since RR, the GOP has failed to evolve to changing demographics. You may bury your head in the sand, but don't complain about the results than, as you are part of the problem.
I think the problem is that to the Fox/Rush/Beck fans, to be a conservative is to be an ideologue. That dog won't hunt.
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Old 11-14-2012, 12:31 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,677 posts, read 16,520,462 times
Reputation: 7274
[quote=Fiddlehead;26948262]
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtn View Post

I think the problem is that to the Fox/Rush/Beck fans, to be a conservative is to be an ideologue. That dog won't hunt.
Correct. There is nothing wrong with a fringe wing nut, left or right, who realizes their wish list will never occur.

The problem is the wing nut fringe who acts like doing the same radical stuff ad infinim will produce different results.

Fox makes money by pandering to the fringe, but the fringe is not bright enough to know they are nothing but a right or left wing media prop.
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Old 11-14-2012, 12:38 PM
Status: "Trump: "Eric, go rake the forest"." (set 2 days ago)
 
10,057 posts, read 5,802,536 times
Reputation: 6909
I enjoyed reading the OP's thoughts. It was refreshing to click on a new thread and not see 'links' to other people's thoughts, articles, statements, videos, etc. Thanks!
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Old 11-14-2012, 12:59 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
1,991 posts, read 3,408,878 times
Reputation: 891
Rudy Giuliani went on TV and said that the Republican Party should be a fiscally conservative, defense conservative, socially libertarian party. He is somewhat right, although I'm not sure he REALLY means defense conservative, because warmongering and global policing is not conservative. So his comments are taken on the TRUE meaning of conservative defense being close to the vest, America-homeland-focused, overseas US base BRACing, fiscally responsible defense financing, then he is exactly right. Using US military to counter Iranian threats to close off economic shipping lanes/trade, for example, is warranted, but not permanent military presence all around the globe just for the US to always be close to everywhere for every "just in case" scenario that may appear somewhere on the planet.

The greatest success for the Republican Party will come if they are fiscally conservative, socially libertarian, and are not global-policers (which means small government BTW).
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