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Old 11-14-2012, 05:41 PM
 
7,578 posts, read 4,061,163 times
Reputation: 2882

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eleanora1...I'm as conservative as they come.

But, I am conflicted on the illegal immigration issue. On the one hand, yes they broke our laws, did not follow the rules, whatever. It bothers me. But, on the other hand. first hand; I've known many Latinos, here both legally and illegally. I know them as neighbors, business owners, people I hire, and not to veer into sterotyping, they are among the most hard working, family oriented, solid folks I know and come into contact with. So, we have to work something out to being the illegal residents into the system and Amercian family. But, we also need to shut down the border and get serious about immigration reform. both, will enhance our national security.

Companies and their CEO's by extension are to for the purpose of providing a good or service that people will buy; and to make as big a profit as possiblein doing so, Companies paying for healthcare is not a right, nor an obligation. Paying for healthcare was not always a part of the employment. It evolved, partly because our society grew and became wealthier. Partly because of tax policy.

And now, it is evolving again, because of government action, the ACA. On this, I am not conflicted. I believe that any centralized policy or action, whether one is talking a very large multi-national company, or a central government leads to inefficiency and mega unintended consequences.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
Addding eleven million unskilled hispanic law breakers to a struggling economy is just stupid. Allowing greedy, overpaid CEO's to refuse to pay for their worker's health care is even stupider. The rest of your post is fine.
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Old 11-14-2012, 06:06 PM
 
3,574 posts, read 4,018,551 times
Reputation: 3051
Quote:
Originally Posted by earthlyfather View Post
And now, it is evolving again, because of government action, the ACA. On this, I am not conflicted. I believe that any centralized policy or action, whether one is talking a very large multi-national company, or a central government leads to inefficiency and mega unintended consequences.
You mean like Medicare (which everybody LOVES and fights to protect) or like the free medical system that every U.S. soldier enjoys? You must want to do away with those as well if you are consistent.
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Old 11-14-2012, 06:25 PM
 
Location: Albemarle, NC and Gaithersburg, MD
113 posts, read 155,906 times
Reputation: 214
Great responses! Some of you asked why I am a Republican. I have always been a moderate conservative. I am a pragmatist more than anything. I don't believe in going to the extremes of either party. If our politicians actually did what they were elected to do, they would try to find some middle ground and do what is best for the country. I have been around long enough to know that there is zero chance of that happening.

As for health care, we provide government health care to veterans and seniors. Is it really that much of a leap to extend those benefits to everyone? It seems to me that it would take the pressure off of businesses to provide health care. With the current system, some people get great health care, some people get ok health care, and some people don't get anything because they cannot afford it.

After going through this last election, I think that I will change my party affiliation to Independent.
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Old 11-14-2012, 06:39 PM
 
7,578 posts, read 4,061,163 times
Reputation: 2882
I don't believe I said do away with anything. In fact, I'm positive I didn't. I said there is a good possibility for unintended consequences with large, centralized control and changes, not necessarily good. Employer healthcare, which is what military healthcare effectively is, is different then impacting, changing a system for 350,000,000 people. It's a Bob's Ford dealership and FOMOCO comparison, perhaps even the entireiety of the U.S. auto industry comparison. The order of magnitude, and thus affect, is totally different.

As someone who will be on Medicare shortly and well understands the gaps, and true costs, ($3,800~ per year out of pocket), I say the program needs some serious reformation. BTW, that same $3,800 2012 out of pocket, with 10% inflation per year will be almost $10,000 by 2022. Do away with? No. Seriously reform? Yes.

Try not reading from only an ideological perspective. In other words, quit projecting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by logline View Post
You mean like Medicare (which everybody LOVES and fights to protect) or like the free medical system that every U.S. soldier enjoys? You must want to do away with those as well if you are consistent.
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Old 11-14-2012, 07:40 PM
 
Location: Table Rock Lake
971 posts, read 1,135,001 times
Reputation: 939
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ex Vermonter View Post
Great responses! Some of you asked why I am a Republican. I have always been a moderate conservative. I am a pragmatist more than anything. I don't believe in going to the extremes of either party. If our politicians actually did what they were elected to do, they would try to find some middle ground and do what is best for the country. I have been around long enough to know that there is zero chance of that happening.

As for health care, we provide government health care to veterans and seniors. Is it really that much of a leap to extend those benefits to everyone? It seems to me that it would take the pressure off of businesses to provide health care. With the current system, some people get great health care, some people get ok health care, and some people don't get anything because they cannot afford it.

After going through this last election, I think that I will change my party affiliation to Independent.
I agree with your first paragraph. I don't quite understand your statement about providing health care to veterans and seniors. If we (tax payers) provide health care for veterans, that would be fine with me, but FYI I pay over $3000 in premiums per year for my Medicare so how are you providing that? My Medicare premiums are deducted from my ponzi sceme social security check but I still pay income tax on my social security and retirement checks.
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Old 11-14-2012, 07:43 PM
 
519 posts, read 328,032 times
Reputation: 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponderosa View Post
You sound like a Democrat to me, not a "frustrated Republican".
The world doesn't revolve around you.
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Old 11-14-2012, 07:44 PM
 
Location: Albemarle, NC and Gaithersburg, MD
113 posts, read 155,906 times
Reputation: 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluff_Dweller View Post
I agree with your first paragraph. I don't quite understand your statement about providing health care to veterans and seniors. If we (tax payers) provide health care for veterans, that would be fine with me, but FYI I pay over $3000 in premiums per year for my Medicare so how are you providing that? My Medicare premiums are deducted from my ponzi sceme social security check but I still pay income tax on my social security and retirement checks.
Those are good points. I think that Social Security and Medicare both need to be reformed. You should not have to pay those kinds of premiums.
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Old 11-14-2012, 07:55 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
14,330 posts, read 19,031,218 times
Reputation: 18436
Default Not quite

I'm so sick of this "both parties need to" argument. It's complete crap. Republicans would love it if everyone equally blamed Democrats for the problems that plague this country, problems Republicans make worse or create. I have never bought into this utter nonsense. Reagan was unequaled in his utter ignorance of how to run an economy to benefit the nation with his "trickle down" crap. He quadrupled the national debt. He was nothing but a Lark. Bush decimated the hell out of this country, sending every domestic category in crisis mode. His foreign policy was worse. We're still reeling from the utter stench that was the failed Bush/Republican presidency. Over the past 4 years, Republicans have been maniacal in their opposition to this greatest of Presidents simply because he is Black. This is extreme ignorance personified. Congressional Republicans were atrocious and embarrassing, the worst representation in history. Republicans focus on the differences between us, not the similarities which bring us together. They are the party of the Civil War-fighting South and are THE problem. Bigots do not need to be setting policy, running any office, having any authority, or giving a narrative.

The central problem with the Republican ideology is that it is a BIGOTED one. Its constituents include the most racially ignorant, vile, and racially-prejudiced people in history. This bunch is even more pathetic than their Confederate-supporting ancestors because their hindsight is greater than that of any previous generation. Yet they voluntarily choose to be as ignorant and backwards as the slaveowner. They especially hate and have no respect for black people. They deny racism still exists to the detriment of black people even while they practice it as a matter of course. To a lesser extent, they discriminate against other minorities as well. This level of ignorance indicates a severe AFFLICTION, one which renders their judgment and instincts on ALL matters, untrustworthy and not worthy of respect. When they are in control, they are INEFFECTIVE and a detriment to this country.

Racists cannot fairly assess the problems which negatively impact people of the cultures they despise and fear, and they certainly can't devise solutions to those unique problems. You mentioned a few categories, but the GOP platform on these topics does not get to the root. That root makes Conservativism synonymous with Bigotry. This is the core of the problem for this Regressive party. You didn't get to the heart of the problem Republicans represent.

Until the Republican party stops trying to preserve the hierarchy that emerged from Slavery, they will always be the party that is many centuries behind.
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Old 11-14-2012, 08:11 PM
 
Location: Long Island (chief in S Farmingdale)
18,704 posts, read 14,825,098 times
Reputation: 3845
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponderosa View Post
Because Republicans won't nominate a true conservative. Obama won because real Americans did not show up last week. They stayed home because Romney did not excite them. If Republicans misread this message and take a left turn, they are chasing votes that are going to go to Democrats. Republicans need to find their conservative soul again and live by it. That means a presidential candidate who represents their views and not a phony, transparent liberal like McCain or Romney. The makers can take back their country from the takers if a true conservative heads the ticket.
This type of attitude is why the GOP lost.
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Old 11-14-2012, 08:33 PM
 
Location: On the "Left Coast", somewhere in "the Land of Fruits & Nuts"
8,367 posts, read 8,276,297 times
Reputation: 5906
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smash255 View Post
This type of attitude is why the GOP lost.
Precisely. Although unfortunately, despite all of the more "realistic" or moderate positions being discussed here, that very same attitude also represents the mindset of a very large constituency, which the GOP cannot afford to do without (aka, their current "base").
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