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Old 11-18-2012, 10:47 PM
 
Location: Texas
14,969 posts, read 13,768,384 times
Reputation: 4539

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Quote:
Originally Posted by boiseguy View Post
does being gay make me a minority?
Absolutely, but I think what Republicans could do to do better among gays is more obvious than what they could do to do better among other minority groups (such as blacks, Hispanics, Asians, and Native Americans).
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Old 11-18-2012, 10:53 PM
 
Location: Texas
14,969 posts, read 13,768,384 times
Reputation: 4539
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardA View Post
There really isn't much the GOP can do. As a Black person most are raised left of center. I came to conservatism on my own as I became more educated about American history and economics. Left of center politics is de jure in Latin America, Africa and Black America so short of the GOP becoming the 2nd liberal party there will be little hope of converts.

The Dem party is for folks who have grievances, little confidence in their abilities and look to others to care for them. It's a party built on glorified theft.

The GOP at best can improve maybe 10-15 PTs with Hispanics over time since they intermarry a lot with Whites. Blacks are a lost cause the vast majority cannot compete in a free market system so a party preaching self reliance will never fly. Wouldn't waste much time with us but keep the language civil maybe make token forays into the hood.
The GOP HAS to improve more than 10-15 points among Hispanics. After a few more presidential elections, there will be no way to win without doing so.

When you say there's really not much the GOP can do, we simply have to. It is not optional. For 2016 they should have a goal of getting at least 10% of the black vote, 35% of the Hispanic vote, and 35% of the Asian vote.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardA View Post
The GOP should concentrate efforts among Asians in Northern Virginia, PA, NV (Romney actually tied among them here), and California.
I agree, except on CA. That state is hopeless for the GOP for the forseeable future. I wonder how much Asians and Hispanics hurt Romney in VA. They are both fairly decent-sized percentages of the electorate in the state.

Last edited by afoigrokerkok; 11-18-2012 at 11:14 PM..
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Old 11-18-2012, 10:54 PM
 
Location: DFW
2,262 posts, read 2,692,086 times
Reputation: 1288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frozenyo View Post
Well, you can start by listening to Willard Romney's post election comments. First, just because an individual doesn't use racial slurs doesn't mean they aren't racist. Romney pointed out a lot of people who he claimed Obama was going to give "gifts" to and singled out minorities. When in fact, most of the people who would take advantage of healthcare and increased access to school loans are white. Most people on food stamps and public assistance are white and a vast majority are in red states.

Paul Ryan claiming that his ticket lost because of the "urban" turnout that they didn't expect (read lazy).

Attempting to make voting difficult in Florida but shortening early voting minorities generally take advantage of forcing 8 hour waits. All the other voter supression tecqniques focused solely at minorities. It's only from republicans toward minority communities.

John McCain stands up, without facts and implies that a black female Rhode Scholar isn't smart after he selected Palin. Not that she was wrong or had bad intelligence but that she wasn't smart. McCain in the 4 years since the Palin debacle has not said a word about Palin being an idiot as every other person in his campaign has said. But amazingly, one comment into Susan Rice's overt public career he makes this statement.

The Republican Party Chair in Maine who claimed too many black people came to vote and made remarks about knowing all the black people in the town because he plays basketball with them.

These are just a few of the recent racially motivated things that have occured. Most minoritiy adults can identify pretty easily a closet racist. These are republican party leaders to include it's most recent standard bearer. I shouldn't even have to mention talking heads like Rush or the ignorant tea-partiers who are just being lead by the talking heads. I'm talking about republican leadership.

The problem as most are beginning to realize is because republicans sequester themselves in a bubble of foxnews spin, drudge report nonsense and consevative radio blather.
Don't worry Frozenyo, I'll never take left wingers seriously.

Last edited by D-Towner; 11-18-2012 at 11:38 PM..
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Old 11-18-2012, 11:26 PM
 
Location: San Antonio Texas
11,435 posts, read 15,949,388 times
Reputation: 5224
[quote=afoigrokerkok;27010021]The GOP HAS to improve more than 10-15 points among Hispanics. After a few more presidential elections, there will be no way to win without doing so.

When you say there's really not much the GOP can do, we simply have to. It is not optional. For 2016 they should have a goal of getting at least 10% of the black vote, 35% of the Hispanic vote, and 35% of the Asian vote.

Everyone points to pathway to immigration as a solution to get back in the latino vote's good graces. I feel that doing so would be like selling out the party's soul. although I am mex-american, I am very much against any form of pathway to legalization of illegal immigrants or children of illegal immigrants. If the repubs become a "me too" party, then what really separates their views from the democrats? If there was some way to grant the illegals some kind of citizenship but no welfare handouts for life as a condition of the granting of this citizenship? Are there any studies that show what the net effect on their federal/state expenditures would be once they would become legal? Our tax system is so retarded in that it rewards ppl that earn little income and have too many kids. Perhaps if they ended the ridiculous earned income tax credit and Romney credits for rich people and made EVERY citizen pay taxes regardless of kids or nonworking spouse, there would not be so much class animosity over who pays what.

Black votes cannot be won. the deal with the devil "Southern Strategy" effects are permanent. I don't see Repubs improving things with gays either since they've demonized them too. Idealistic young ppl are not going to support a party with old ideas from old people. Most young ppl today believe in gay equality and will not be associated with the repubs' ideas on gays, contraception, pro-choice matters, ditto for single women. Repubs would look awfully silly doing backflips to support gays, illegals, affirmative action, etc.
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Old 11-19-2012, 12:05 AM
 
8,399 posts, read 5,078,660 times
Reputation: 2314
Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
Well, the GOP took a beating among minority voters. That's pretty obvious. What I would like to do is start a dialogue with the minority voters on this forum (those who voted for Obama, obviously if you voted for Romney this doesn't apply to you) about changes the Republicans could make to attract you to their party. Some of you are fairly conservative. For those of you who have the idea that the Republican Party is a racist party, I would like to know why. While I understand there are some Republican voters who are racist and some conservative talk show personalities and the like, I fail to see how Republican politicians/candidates are racist. Even if there are a few isolated cases, I fail to see how the party platform or how the majority or even any minority other than perhaps a very small fringe of Republican politicians/candidates are racist.

I am starting this thread with the very best of intentions. I have been called racist on this forum and I don't understand why. Just because I'm a Republican?!? I have black and Hispanic friends (I'm not just saying that; I just had drinks with a black friend the other day). I have always worked with blacks and Hispanics and have always seen them as the same as everyone else. I am not trying to start any kind of conflict. I am simply trying to start a discussion. I do hope we can welcome more of you in to our party. Yes, we need your votes, but even if we could win with zero minority votes I wouldn't want the GOP to win in that case or even with 20% of minority votes. Does a large group of minority voters fear the Republican Party? If so, why? And what can be done to change this?

This whole debate about takers versus makers is phony. Everyone takes from the federal government. This is the biggest lie that conservatives tell themselves, that they don't depend on the government, that they want to stop the "government dependency" of other Americans that saps blah, blah, blah, blah.

This is completely false. If you have employer provided healthcare, you are government dependent. If you have a 401k you are government dependent. If you have children, are married, own a home, own a business, etc and so on, you are government dependent.

There is no moral superiority in having some of your business expenses, retirement, cost of having children, homeownership, etc subsidized by the government than in getting food stamps yet conservatives tell themselves there is some moral difference that makes one form of dependency better than the other. It is maddening and distorts the discussions that need to happen.

So for me, I don't want people on welfare to get off of welfare because I want them off of government dependency, because that's not what happens. I want people off of welfare so their lives improve.
Even after they get off welfare they'll still be government dependent just like all Americans.

This is objective reality. Yet conservatives seem to deny that they reap huge gigantic benefits from the government.

All Americans depend on the government in various ways and nearly all are getting some type of direct financial subsidy from the government.

Stop with the fantasy stuff. Stop pretending that "stuff" that some voters get from the government is morally superior than the "stuff" that other voters get. Attempt to appeal to voters who are not white.
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Old 11-19-2012, 12:11 AM
 
47,316 posts, read 24,634,182 times
Reputation: 14468
Truthfully speaking, there is little they could do. Yes, I think the party is extremely hostile to my people, but its really not racial with me when I think about it.

Republicans love wars too much. They have never met a military expenditure they didn't like. They demonize teachers and academia in general. They care too much about life in the womb and too little about life outside of it. They talk too darn much about faith. They deny science with stunning regularity. They worship anyone with a lot of money, and give little to ZERO value to people without it. They hate unions and slavishly exalt business owners and corporarists. They bemoan something as common sensical as universal healthcare. They hate or are suspicious of the arts and artists. We can spend billions on bombs, but funding the arts is seen as unworthy.

And the tax thing is just incredible. They're constantly falling on their political swords for the wealthy when half of the wealthy doesn't even vote Republican. Anything to protect the wealthy.

But the worst thing to me is the echo chamber. We have kooks on the left, but the right wing kooks are ROYALTY on that side of the aisle. And they even manage to get elected with regularity. Michelle Bachmann has no business working as a burger flipper, let alone in Congress. Sarah Palin was a Veep Candidate for God's sake! I'm sorry, but if you don't think Palin is a can of Planters, you're just delusional. And yet, Republicans deny that this is a strong signal that they're an anti intellectual party, and they're proud of it.

As it pertains to race, I can overlook the hostility. But all of the aforementioned is simply too much to ignore.
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Old 11-19-2012, 12:25 AM
 
Location: Long Island (chief in S Farmingdale)
18,697 posts, read 14,816,085 times
Reputation: 3843
Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
The GOP HAS to improve more than 10-15 points among Hispanics. After a few more presidential elections, there will be no way to win without doing so.

When you say there's really not much the GOP can do, we simply have to. It is not optional. For 2016 they should have a goal of getting at least 10% of the black vote, 35% of the Hispanic vote, and 35% of the Asian vote.



I agree, except on CA. That state is hopeless for the GOP for the forseeable future. I wonder how much Asians and Hispanics hurt Romney in VA. They are both fairly decent-sized percentages of the electorate in the state.
No question Asians and Hispanics hurt Romney in VA, especially NOVA. Its also a problem much larger than just Romney or 2012. NOVA is one of the most well educated and diverse areas of the country and the trend there really shows why the GOP is going to have some major problems long term if things don't change.

Below is some northern VA counties and how the county has compared to the national average for the last several election cycles

Fairfax
1988 GOP +15.10
1992 GOP +8.41
1996 GOP +10.02
2000 GOP +1.88
2004 Dem +9.76
2008 Dem +13.92
2012 Dem +17.54 (not official)

Prince William
1988 GOP +26.69
1992 GOP +17.38
1996 GOP +15.94
2000 GOP +8.51
2004 GOP +3.98
2008 Dem +8.63
2012 Dem +13.04 (not official)

Loudon
1988 GOP +25.81
1992 GOP +17.17
1996 GOP +20.21
2000 GOP +15.73
2004 GOP +9.63
2008 Dem +.99
2012 Dem +1.51 (not official)

Arlington
1988 Dem +15.84
1992 Dem +20.33
1996 Dem +17.32
2000 Dem +25.47
2004 Dem +38.75
2008 Dem +37.32
2012 Dem +36.82 (not official)

Alexandria
1988 Dem +15.24
1992 Dem +21.18
1996 Dem +19.83
2000 Dem +25.92
2004 Dem +37.04
2008 Dem +37.20
2012 Dem +40.55 (not official)

And to check out suburban Richmond


Henrico
1988 GOP +31.57
1992 GOP +24.03
1996 GOP +21.56
2000 GOP +12.98
2004 GOP +5.66
2008 Dem +4.96
2012 Dem +8.77 (not official)


Those movements really are stark, and its long term. Granted that are certainly areas that have gone the other direction including in VA (SW VA especially). The GOP has picked up a ton of ground in Appalachia for example. However, the problem for the GOP is one area is growing and has people, the other doesn't. The same policies and rhetoric that help them in SW VA cost them in the D.C & Richmond suburbs
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Old 11-19-2012, 12:55 AM
 
Location: None of your business
5,467 posts, read 3,638,590 times
Reputation: 1170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamme73 View Post
This whole debate about takers versus makers is phony. Everyone takes from the federal government. This is the biggest lie that conservatives tell themselves, that they don't depend on the government, that they want to stop the "government dependency" of other Americans that saps blah, blah, blah, blah.

This is completely false. If you have employer provided healthcare, you are government dependent. If you have a 401k you are government dependent. If you have children, are married, own a home, own a business, etc and so on, you are government dependent.

There is no moral superiority in having some of your business expenses, retirement, cost of having children, homeownership, etc subsidized by the government than in getting food stamps yet conservatives tell themselves there is some moral difference that makes one form of dependency better than the other. It is maddening and distorts the discussions that need to happen.

So for me, I don't want people on welfare to get off of welfare because I want them off of government dependency, because that's not what happens. I want people off of welfare so their lives improve.
Even after they get off welfare they'll still be government dependent just like all Americans.

This is objective reality. Yet conservatives seem to deny that they reap huge gigantic benefits from the government.

All Americans depend on the government in various ways and nearly all are getting some type of direct financial subsidy from the government.
You are wrong about the dependency. The only way I depend on the government is when I depend on them to correctly process the check I was forced to write to them. A 401K is a form of saving money that was earned and putting it away for retirement. Not sure how owning a home makes me dependent on the government, no HUD loan or whatever you call it here. So no you are wrong. What is upsetting conservatives and republicans (at least those of us at the bottom) is we know that anytime the government wants to raise taxes they always hit us at the low end. We are tired of working our butts off only to be forced to give a chunk to the government before we get it.
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Old 11-19-2012, 01:10 AM
 
519 posts, read 327,912 times
Reputation: 215
I'm not a minority, but I just figured I'd chime in because I'm a voter whom the GOP should be able to get without much of a problem, and yet there is no way in hell I would vote for GOP right now. As I've told others, I don't even like voting for democrats; I vote for democrats to vote AGAINST republicans.

I cannot begin to speak for a minority. I am married to a minority, but that's not really the same. I can only offer my own perspective, based on what I have seen. Having grown up in the deep south, I've been the 'insider', the guy who hears all the redneck racist jokes that everyone feels comfortable telling me because they've assumed I'm one of them. I know the mentality.

What I saw over the last 4 years was beyond belief. I saw the president of the United States - and his wife - repeatedly treated with contempt and disrespect, not because of his policies in fact, but because of what people who wanted to stereotype him assumed his policies to be. They all assumed that because he was black, that he was the 'food stamp president' or the 'welfare' president. Obama's giving 'gifts' to the '47 percent who don't want to work'. Oh but blacks and Hispanics and Asians...they'll never know what you're talking about or whom you're talking about <eye roll>.

The republicans arrogantly and stubbornly assumed that all they had to do was to get to their 'base' of voters. In other words, just use the super majority that white voters have and fire them up. In short, theirs was a strategy of whipping up white paranoia; bringing out the very worst in the electorate; appealing to its fears, rather than appealing to its hopes and desires. Some of the rhetoric used by the right wing echoes that of the Reconstruction Era in the aftermath of the Civil War. Anyone who knows that history - blacks do, whites typically don't - knows how ghastly those times were. Read about Colfax. Read about the race riots of the 1870s. Read about peonage. Read about the Tulsa riots of 1921.

Blacks aren't the only ones who were having flashbacks to nightmares. The arrogance of the GOP, the anti-immigrant tenor (going well beyond the issue of merely illegal immigration) harks back to the times of the Exclusion Acts and the 'Yellow Menace'. My Asian wife and I discussed that more than once. Republicans think everyone who isn't white is stupid. The election was your writing on the wall: non-whites aren't nearly as thick as you think they are.

By far, the worst of the abuses over the last few years, were aimed at Hispanic Americans. It goes beyond just the Dream Act. Immigration reform is one thing. But proposing the legalization of profiling; proposing that it's okay to profile people, pull them over, and haul them off to jail until they can prove their identity...beyond the pale. Absolutely disgusting. If you think your party's going to repair the damage done to Hispanic-GOP relations just by passing immigration reform, think again. Not until you guys stop this insanity of legalized racial profiling will things change. It's an outrage. The outrage of all outrages.
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Old 11-19-2012, 02:49 AM
 
Location: None of your business
5,467 posts, read 3,638,590 times
Reputation: 1170
Thats ironic. people who voted GOP feel they are attacked too. You say republicans think your all about welfare and republicans can't disagree with a democrat without being called a racist and the people I know aren't but they are sure sick of the anti-white feeling that they feel that has been promoted.

The people on the left feel the right view them as lazy and the people on the right feel they work to damn hard just to be taxed even more.

The list goes on. So what you have is both sides who feel the other side have the wrong view about them.

I wonder, is it not the people on the left or the right but the politicians that played to divide us. Just a thought.

Last edited by eRayP; 11-19-2012 at 03:21 AM..
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