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Old 11-19-2012, 08:45 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
27,613 posts, read 24,814,812 times
Reputation: 11185

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Quote:
Originally Posted by thriftylefty View Post
The arrival of the Tea Party put the last nail in the coffin. G W Bush's Faith Based Initiative was popular with the Black Church, Even though I personally didn't agree with it, I understood that Religion was an area that traditional Conservatives and some Black voters had common ground. Republicans can seize this moment an instead of saying they want to cut programs that minorities depend on, they should use language that tells minority voters they want to make those programs serve them better.
I don't think it's really that at all. I think it's more or less the hostile tone expressed towards minorities.

I think people need to get this notion out of their heads that most black people are sitting around collecting "gifts" from the federal government.
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Old 11-19-2012, 08:50 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
27,613 posts, read 24,814,812 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardA View Post
The GOP generally gets 10% of the black vote. The GOPs best course of action is getting out more of the White vote. Romney lost because white voters stayed home. In Ohio Blacks made up 15% of the electorate when they only make up 11-12% of the state pop. This suggests not only increased black turnout but decreased turnout.
2008 was a record turnout a year (for all races) that did not inure to the benefit of Republicans. You can't just assume that more white people going to the polls means more votes for Republicans.
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Old 11-19-2012, 08:55 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
27,613 posts, read 24,814,812 times
Reputation: 11185
Quote:
Originally Posted by scubamaniac View Post
I'm asian-american and i've posted about this extensively but here are my thoughts:

1) Republicans claim to be fiscal conservatives but since I was old enough to remember prominent Republicans being in power like Reagan were all about massive deficit spending. Usually the budget went towards defense projects, pork barrel, and other shady financing activities. Ted Stevens is another example of how Repubs involve themselves in all sorts of malfeasance at the taxpayers expense. He bilked hundreds of millions of federal dollars into bridges to nowhere and other stuff in Alaska. That is pretty standard hypocritical behavior for the party.

2) Speaking of "gifts" Republicans always promise tax cuts..to the richest people in the U.S. who are *surprise surprise* the major lobbyists and election campaign donors. The middle class receives little benefit and it's a hat trick because while they promise tax cuts they are engaging in massive deficit spending and corporate cronyism see: defense, big pharmaceutical, infrastructure, etc..

3) Religious fundamentalism. The religious right who believes in things like the upcoming apocalypse, creationism, sexual politics, the divine right of supporting Israel, religious law, etc.. have attached themselves to the modern Republican party. When you replace rational thought with "faith" based beliefs then you are naturally diverging away from principles which form a first world modern society able to utilize logic and rationalism to solve problems or plan for the future. You end up with a society that is intolerant of other religions, science, progressive thought, etc.. It's inviting a dark age mentality into the 21st century.

4) Aggressive foreign policy. Eisenhower warned us about the military industrial complex and it seems that Republicans have embraced the whole concept of expansionist war and creating proxy commonwealths through actual military conflict. War enriches corporate lobbyists and defense contractors and who do they donate money to most of the time? ... Reagan involved himself in many shady south American conflicts as well. It's not surprising that the whole Republican neo-con movement was birthed from Reagan's administration and cabinet.

5) Racism. It started with Lee Atwater's racist political ideology with the southern strategy but its foundational roots are probably older than that. The whole concept is to dog whistle and create intense paranoia and distrust. The ideology behind it is that race divisions are a convenient way to split the lower and middle class vote and was probably started in earnest during the post civil war era to pit ethnicities against each other and break collective wage bargaining. Ultra wealthy elite classes turning lower and middle class citizens against each other for political gain is the oldest trick in the book. It's used in poor Banana Republics all the time which I feel that many wealthy Republicans probably secretly admire their colonial type wealth inequality. It's extremely harmful for American society especially if you constantly vilify and disenfranchise large portions of your own population.

Republicans deny the racism a lot when its endemic in the party. I can't even count the number of attack ads that depict minorities in seriously derogatory ways. This goes for blacks, asians, and hispanics.

6) Federal spending priorities. Whenever a Republican comes into power it seems the first thing they aggressively cut is any kind of education or health care program. Cutting into education is stupidity at its finest and typifies the sort of short sighted thinking that is symptomatic of the party. On the other hand the aforementioned pork barrel and defense spending seems to go wildly out of control during a Republican administration. Funny that. A nation that lags behind the other developed world countries in educating its population and developing professional skillsets will soon find itself in the "developing" category down the road. America's potential is limitless in creating this competitive, creative, and adaptive highly educated population but is instead hamstrung every time over politics.
On point.

I don't think Republicans truly get how angry, mean-spirited and extreme they often appear to more moderate voters. It's like a Tea Party rally could explode into a full blown lynching given sufficient consumption of Budweiser.
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Old 11-19-2012, 09:09 AM
 
7,192 posts, read 5,265,915 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scubamaniac View Post
I'm asian-american and i've posted about this extensively but here are my thoughts:

1) Republicans claim to be fiscal conservatives but since I was old enough to remember prominent Republicans being in power like Reagan were all about massive deficit spending. Usually the budget went towards defense projects, pork barrel, and other shady financing activities. Ted Stevens is another example of how Repubs involve themselves in all sorts of malfeasance at the taxpayers expense. He bilked hundreds of millions of federal dollars into bridges to nowhere and other stuff in Alaska. That is pretty standard hypocritical behavior for the party.
This.

Even if they drop the racism, the anti-gay rhetoric, the voter suppression efforts, etc, they're still not getting my vote because they have zero credibility on the one thing I might actually agree with them on. They could also drop the anti-science, anti-education junk and they'd still not get my vote because they'd still have no credibility on fiscal issues.

They've built a coalition of the greediest, the dumbest, and the most bigoted elements of our society. How they get back from that is not obvious.
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Old 11-19-2012, 09:17 AM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
6,208 posts, read 3,105,272 times
Reputation: 2529
For me, it's two things that stop me from voting Republican:

1. They unfairly & unjustly demonize gov't on "principle"
2. They unfairly & unjustly demonize the social safety net on "principle"

If both those things were addressed, it would leave a party that has to come to some realizations about education, taxes, regulation, and a host of other issues.
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Old 11-19-2012, 09:18 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
27,613 posts, read 24,814,812 times
Reputation: 11185
Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
This.

Even if they drop the racism, the anti-gay rhetoric, the voter suppression efforts, etc, they're still not getting my vote because they have zero credibility on the one thing I might actually agree with them on. They could also drop the anti-science, anti-education junk and they'd still not get my vote because they'd still have no credibility on fiscal issues.

They've built a coalition of the greediest, the dumbest, and the most bigoted elements of our society. How they get back from that is not obvious.
Yeah. There's never a time where conservatives will agree that cutting taxes is not the best idea. We could have 0% tax rates on all Americans and they'd start calling for tax credits.

Republicans need to start bringing pragmatic solutions to the table. Most people are not ideologues who will vote for lower taxes, "smaller government" (whatever that really means) and "free markets" (whatever that means) NO MATTER WHAT. Abolishing the Department of Education is not realistic (which is a small part of the federal budget, anyway). Reducing the Department of Justice to 40 attorneys is not realistic. Lowering taxes in the aftermath of a financial crisis is completely reckless. If they brought more serious ideas to the table, then maybe more people would take them seriously.
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Old 11-19-2012, 09:27 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
27,613 posts, read 24,814,812 times
Reputation: 11185
I think conservatives need to abandon all pretense that the Republican party is about ideology (i.e., lower taxes, limited government, etc.). It's not.

This faux outrage over "Obamacare" is the perfect example. The individual mandate was the brainchild of Heritage Foundation scholars.

How the Heritage Foundation, a Conservative Think Tank, Promoted the Individual Mandate - Forbes

And of course, government spending is all waste that fails to create jobs. Except military spending, that is. Besides, it's not like Democrats advocate deficit spending during normal economic times.

If you feel more comfortable with a white man running the show, or you feel like America is being "given away" to minorities, or if you just don't believe in abortion, then I can respect your opinion a whole lot more than someone who votes Republican based on a BS ideology.
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Old 11-19-2012, 09:29 AM
 
Location: None of your business
5,467 posts, read 3,639,113 times
Reputation: 1170
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardA View Post
She's right in the sense that the govt forgoes taxing your contributions to a 401k, how nice of them. Also just because you don't have a HUD home or loan does not mean you do not benefit from govt intervention in mortgage markets. The ability of banks to off load mortgages onto the FHA makes mortgages more available and cheaper to consumers.
I don't get government checks to pay for my food and housing but I pay for everything. If I miss payments they take my house away. Whatever they do once they get my loan it is they who off load. As long as I pay my mortgage they are making money on me.

There is a big difference. Some people are dependent on government for survival (they get paid by the government) while others pay into the government but do not get the benefit.
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Old 11-19-2012, 09:49 AM
 
3,624 posts, read 2,964,812 times
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thats where edward A always goes wrong, saying they just need to turn out more white voters. the white vote has and will continue to decline, while the minority vote will continue to increase. the 2008/2012 election model is the new election model, which is where edward A starts to get into trouble.
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Old 11-19-2012, 09:54 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
27,613 posts, read 24,814,812 times
Reputation: 11185
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtc08 View Post
thats where edward A always goes wrong, saying they just need to turn out more white voters. the white vote has and will continue to decline, while the minority vote will continue to increase. the 2008/2012 election model is the new election model, which is where edward A starts to get into trouble.
Well, by his logic, 2008 should have been a devastating year for Democrats since there was record white turnout. His assumption is that there were millions of racist, white voters lurking in the shadows who could have flooded the polls on Election Day to hand the President a massive defeat. It's quite possible that a majority of those voters would have ended up voting for Obama.
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