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Old 12-05-2012, 05:19 PM
 
Location: On the "Left Coast", somewhere in "the Land of Fruits & Nuts"
8,367 posts, read 8,320,560 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
We have 23 million Americans out of work. Does that mean nothiing to you?
Funny how it's rarely the computer programmers, engineers, doctors, lawyers and managers, etc. who seem so threatened by ''illegals''. Instead it always seems to be the redneck white folks always competing for the low-end jobs, especially since manufacturing jobs started disappearing. So maybe a lot of 'em just need to go back to school and pick up some training & edu-macation, to make themselves more ''competitive'' these days in the job market.... instead of just complaining, because they feel ''entitled''.
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Old 12-05-2012, 06:04 PM
 
32,076 posts, read 14,810,649 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mateo45 View Post
Funny how it's rarely the computer programmers, engineers, doctors, lawyers and managers, etc. who seem so threatened by ''illegals''. Instead it always seems to be the redneck white folks always competing for the low-end jobs, especially since manufacturing jobs started disappearing. So maybe a lot of 'em just need to go back to school and pick up some training & edu-macation, to make themselves more ''competitive'' these days in the job market.... instead of just complaining, because they feel ''entitled''.
Wow, your racism against whites is really showing now! Yes, illegal immigration is affecting the job opportunities for blue collar workers in this country and it isn't only white so-called rednecks either. Many Americans like manual labor jobs such as construction, landscaping,etc. Are you suggesting they give up what they like to do to accomodate illegals who don't even have a right to be in this country? Some of those jobs could be held by our youth looking for entry level jobs also. It takes a lot of nerve for someone to suggest that an American move over and learn a new trade to accomodate these foreign lawbreakers.

FYI, American citizens are "entitled" to work in this country illegals are not. What part of that don't you get? Your entire post made me sick. You should be ashamed of yourself if you are an American!
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Old 12-05-2012, 06:50 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,677 posts, read 16,536,404 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mateo45 View Post
Funny how it's rarely the computer programmers, engineers, doctors, lawyers and managers, etc. who seem so threatened by ''illegals''. Instead it always seems to be the redneck white folks always competing for the low-end jobs, especially since manufacturing jobs started disappearing. So maybe a lot of 'em just need to go back to school and pick up some training & edu-macation, to make themselves more ''competitive'' these days in the job market.... instead of just complaining, because they feel ''entitled''.
That is correct, and they are generally their own worst enemies. My last employer often located facilities in rural Southeastern towns. Good, inexpensive labor force with little turnover as they had few options. The areas college grad rate was lower than even their states, but no big deal. The management team was comprised almost exclusively with people transferred from other regions to run them, and when they hit their operating profits target, they would end up rewarded with corp or regional corp higher level positions. But we realized early while the locals were good for low end, dead end, menial jobs, they were ill suited for more sophisticated positions.

Now these same towns do care about which kids are starting every week at their high school's football game, and the locals whine about falling further behind, year in, year out, in both good and bad US economic periods. Wonder why-LOL?
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Old 12-05-2012, 06:56 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,677 posts, read 16,536,404 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Many Americans like manual labor jobs such as construction, landscaping,etc.
and as long as they will take the rate the market will pay, presently paid to whomever occupies the positions, I'm sure they can get hired. But, contrary to redneck lack of wisdom, as we have increased the percentage of positions requiring post seconary education/degrees, etc, the blue collar, low skill set sector of the job market has seen its Fair Market Value shrink. And the illegals have no affect on that at all. Even without them, this labor pool is easily replaced, and pay levels are dictated by the cost of your replacement.
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Old 12-05-2012, 07:05 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtn View Post
and as long as they will take the rate the market will pay, presently paid to whomever occupies the positions, I'm sure they can get hired. But, contrary to redneck lack of wisdom, as we have increased the percentage of positions requiring post seconary education/degrees, etc, the blue collar, low skill set sector of the job market has seen its Fair Market Value shrink. And the illegals have no affect on that at all. Even without them, this labor pool is easily replaced, and pay levels are dictated by the cost of your replacement.
The market paid a fair rate until the presence of millions of illegals. What part of that aren't you gettng? Employers have no right to hire them. Even if an American were willing to work for minimun wage or less how is he to support his family on that and with an entire Hispanic crew he would be discriminated against. I am talking about once good paying jobs like construction. Redneck lack of wisdom? WTH has rednecks (whomever they are) have to do with this? Why do you hate the American worker so in favor of foreign illegal invaders? Are you an American? I certainly hope not!
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Old 12-05-2012, 07:10 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,677 posts, read 16,536,404 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
. Even if an American were willing to work for minimun wage or less how is he to support his family on that
He should not HAVE a family until he has enough skills to financially support them. High school is not enough in 2012. Failure to add skills ahead of adding dependents is crazy, and I have no sympathy for anyone needing to work multiple McJobs when they failed to understand that simple concept.

50 years ago, High school was enough. We evolved into a more sophisticated society, and rural America needs to adapt, or suffer the consequences for failing to do so.

Lack of education is the true enemy of rural America. Without folks doing jobs worth minimum wage for minimum wage, we , like most corps, if faced with higher market rates, would simply automate more positions, which only adds jobs for the robots.

A good example is the old fashioned pack out employees in mfg. Good luck finding any at any corp with 100 or more employees. Robots pack the stuff out now; they even stack pallets, and move them down automated lines getting scanned all the way to the truck at the loading dock.
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Old 12-05-2012, 07:22 PM
 
Location: State of Being
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By the time Obama's term is finally over, trust me . . . it won't matter who the Republicans run for President - they will win.
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Old 12-05-2012, 09:59 PM
 
32,076 posts, read 14,810,649 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtn View Post
He should not HAVE a family until he has enough skills to financially support them. High school is not enough in 2012. Failure to add skills ahead of adding dependents is crazy, and I have no sympathy for anyone needing to work multiple McJobs when they failed to understand that simple concept.

50 years ago, High school was enough. We evolved into a more sophisticated society, and rural America needs to adapt, or suffer the consequences for failing to do so.

Lack of education is the true enemy of rural America. Without folks doing jobs worth minimum wage for minimum wage, we , like most corps, if faced with higher market rates, would simply automate more positions, which only adds jobs for the robots.

A good example is the old fashioned pack out employees in mfg. Good luck finding any at any corp with 100 or more employees. Robots pack the stuff out now; they even stack pallets, and move them down automated lines getting scanned all the way to the truck at the loading dock.
I am referring to someone like a construction worker who used to be paid a wage that could and did support his family until illegal immigrants came along and reduced those wages in half. I am not talking about a fast food job for God's sake. However, illegals have taken over those jobs also so that our youth don't stand a chance. If you think that illegal immigrants are only doing those types of jobs you need a reality check.

It is bad enough that our jobs are being outsourced such as factory jobs that use to pay a liveable wage but not we are insourcing illegals to take what blue collared jobs there are left. WTH is wrong with Americans who aren't alarmed about both of these things?
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Old 12-05-2012, 10:06 PM
 
3,448 posts, read 2,597,004 times
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I'm not crazy about this guy...heard him talk a few times and thought ok...he's got his ducks in a row...but then heard him talk a little more and believe there are issues which would get in the way of leadership in a full scope representation.. I find he lacks a comprehension of "what it would be, to be like" other people and has a general philosophy from only a self experienced vantage point. It may be good, but thats not enough for leadership..Also, there seems to me to be ego issues, theres too much awe in the self translation of the stature of a huge political position...thats bad..you gotta be in there for the job as a servant 100%. Otherwise decisions can be motivated for reasoning other then their outcome, such as popularity to satisfy the awe for the already displaced ego. Ego's got to be high but out of a concrete philosophy alongside servitude and rooted in a tree that can sway a little...a style that can easily say I'm going to rethink that or you might have a point, or never thought of it that way, did you consider this...this guys too firm, all that can do is crackle up... some of the things people notice I think without exactly saying, just a well..I don't like that guy or woman and so on...theres always a reason and sometimes its a good one...I would recommend he gets his eye off higher leadership responsibility....a great leader is needed, not one who "wants" to be a great leader...its got to just unfold, I don't see him letting things unfold, rather trying to go out of the way with tackling things.....I think thats a sign to cut them off and try something else....the desperately and or anxious self causing wanna be's are man's biggest leadership problem's.

Last edited by stargazzer; 12-05-2012 at 10:14 PM..
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Old 12-05-2012, 10:18 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,677 posts, read 16,536,404 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
I am referring to someone like a construction worker who used to be paid a wage that could and did support his family until illegal immigrants came along and reduced those wages in half. I am not talking about a fast food job for God's sake. However, illegals have taken over those jobs also so that our youth don't stand a chance. If you think that illegal immigrants are only doing those types of jobs you need a reality check.

It is bad enough that our jobs are being outsourced such as factory jobs that use to pay a liveable wage but not we are insourcing illegals to take what blue collared jobs there are left. WTH is wrong with Americans who aren't alarmed about both of these things?

Construction and mfg have something in common that cuts far more jobs than who gets picked..efficiency gains. A friend has been the CFO of 2 large firms, and I was surprised at how much the labor requirements had dropped in that industry. Mfg, I'm familiar with our gains.

Several of our mfg facilities make more product than they did 20 years ago with one third the staff. That trend will continue, as robots have gotten far better, and can be purchased for far less than in prior decades.

These efficiency gains mean we have a higher ratio of available labor to actual jobs, and volla, when that happens, average compensation decreases for all in the labor group. (supply/demand)

There truly is no way around the fact our average level of education must increase sharply, simply to keep where we are, and the laggard , more than most regions, is Rural America. Those who continue fighting for ever fewer jobs in industries not requiring post secondary education or significant classroom training will fall further behind, as that labor supply ratio keeps getting worse.
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