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Old 11-27-2012, 05:20 PM
 
Location: west mich
5,740 posts, read 5,654,959 times
Reputation: 2108

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Quote:
Originally Posted by GWhopper View Post
Actually, it was the Wall Street invention of Mortgage Backed Securities bundling and Credit Default swaps that once they blew up, took out the housing market. Neither party did much to investigate or regulate these investments, however, the Bush administration did warn congress of the potential dangers. However, neither side acted on the warning so I blame politicians on both side of the aisle. It often times take inaction and stupidity of people in both parties to wreck an economy.
OK I blame both parties for many things in the past, but to varying degrees. Most of our present-day problems are due to a republican trickle-down doctrine, and foolishly embraced by conservative democrats as well. Maybe I myself accepted the idea of wealthy-as-job creators at first, but no more. We tried it, and it failed.
I also supported the Iraq invasion because of the phony, trumped-up intelligence I was fed. Don't appreciate it.

 
Old 11-27-2012, 05:35 PM
 
Location: Columbia, SC
16,423 posts, read 9,273,444 times
Reputation: 6172
Quote:
Originally Posted by GWhopper View Post
If we keep making statements that all the people who voted for Obama are lazy moochers, then we'll keep losing elections. We need to understand first that people in all walks of life voted for Obama in the election, Black & White, Rich & Poor, Employed & Unemployed, Urban and Rural. Calling people names and making sweeping generalizations about half the population just because they didn't vote for our candidate isn't going to helps us win back their votes next time around. We need to stop with the name calling, the anger, the uncompromising positions, and start to offer clearly defined, well-defined conservative solutions based on real, actual facts, and communicate how those solutions can help all the people from those various walks of life.

I think on social issues, the electorate is inevitably moving left of center. I think on fiscal matters, the electorate would still go right of center, if the fiscal ideas presented were realistic and devoid of fear-mongering and identity politics.
IMHO and from long observation, most of us from either side of the political spectrum want politics to mirror our lives. We are, by and large, fiscally conservative and socially liberal.

I really hope the republicans can remain strong to provide an opposing viewpoint too be debated in the American dialogue. A single point of view would not be healthy regardless of the party who rammed their ideas through.

It has to start by stopping the villification of others who hold those opposing viewpoints. Because we don't agree all the time doesn't mean that either of us is bad, crooked, or even wrong. We're just different people who have come to a point in life down entirely different roads.
 
Old 11-27-2012, 05:43 PM
 
Location: Mount Dora, FL
2,904 posts, read 2,513,671 times
Reputation: 1354
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardA View Post
The country has changed for the worst, morally and demographically.
Yep, you didn't learn a single thing from this election. Keep thinking that way and you'll be seeing blue for many, many years to come..
 
Old 11-27-2012, 05:51 PM
 
Location: Hinckley Ohio
6,722 posts, read 4,260,354 times
Reputation: 1376
Exactly, there is no way the GOP is ever going to expand their base when they demonize everyone "else".

Quote:
Originally Posted by GWhopper View Post
If we keep making statements that all the people who voted for Obama are lazy moochers, then we'll keep losing elections. We need to understand first that people in all walks of life voted for Obama in the election, Black & White, Rich & Poor, Employed & Unemployed, Urban and Rural. Calling people names and making sweeping generalizations about half the population just because they didn't vote for our candidate isn't going to helps us win back their votes next time around. We need to stop with the name calling, the anger, the uncompromising positions, and start to offer clearly defined, well-defined conservative solutions based on real, actual facts, and communicate how those solutions can help all the people from those various walks of life.

I think on social issues, the electorate is inevitably moving left of center. I think on fiscal matters, the electorate would still go right of center, if the fiscal ideas presented were realistic and devoid of fear-mongering and identity politics.
 
Old 11-27-2012, 05:58 PM
 
Location: Hinckley Ohio
6,722 posts, read 4,260,354 times
Reputation: 1376
Quote:
Originally Posted by petch751 View Post
Let's give American voters the benefit of the doubt and say it was all voter fraud and not ignorance or stupidity.

Instead we'll say it's true that the Communists usage of electronic voting was just a plan to manipulate the vote. Soros and his ownership of the company that counts the US votes in Spain helped put their puppet in power in the White House. According to the Huffington Post, residents in all 50 states have filed petitions to secede from the Unites States. We'll say that these Americans are hostages to the Communists in power.

How long will their government reign tyranny upon them?
If you're searching for the "problem" start by looking in the mirror. The mentality and motivations behind your post is exactly why middle America voted against you loins.
 
Old 11-27-2012, 06:22 PM
 
Location: Somewhere extremely awesome
2,835 posts, read 2,301,104 times
Reputation: 2181
Quote:
Originally Posted by detwahDJ View Post
You present your assumption as fact. America is not center-right just because Fox says it is.
* You seem to be buying into the right-wing assertion that democrats are "socialists".
* Fox itself is extreme plutocratic right-wing posing as center-right, and the mainstream media is corporate-right. Many people vote republican because they have been suckered, believing the nonsense that corporate news is centrist or liberal.
This does not mean that Americans are center-right ideologically.
* Any candidate, repub or democrat, working for Americans should be unstoppable. The corporate media will quash any candidate, like the third parties', that doesn't fall in line.
* Republican policies have been plutocratic ever since Eisenhower.
I'm not sure you understood my post. I'm no fan of Fox News or the Republicans right now in general. You might want to check my posting history.

Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that I don't think that "Left" and "Right" line up exactly with Republicans and Democrats. I think that by in large, right leaning viewpoints outnumber left leaning viewpoints. My personal opinion about the breakdown is the following:

20% extreme far right
20% far right
11% moderate/pragmatic right
12% right-leaning moderates
9% left-leaning moderates
8% moderate/pragmatic left
10% far left
10% extreme far left

This uneven breakdown has interesting effects on the two parties. Democrats can't afford to run people with extreme positions because they would never get elected. Generally, however, their coalition is left-leaning, so their successful candidates are going to be in the moderate/pragmatic left range. On the Republican side, however, while an extreme candidate isn't going to be successful, the hardcore extreme far right types can demand that their candidate be at least what would generally be considered "far right" and still have a chance at success. You can have the moderates that might lean right vote Democrat because the alternative is scarier. The Obama/Biden is in the moderate/pragmatic left range, and the Romney/Ryan ticket was in the far right range from what I can tell.

Personally, I think this conundrum describes my positions very well. I'd like what a lot of the moderate conservative positions are selling, but I almost think that the Democrats are selling that better than the Republicans are right now, even if you have to take a little bit more "Great Society" type stuff with the Democrats to avoid the lunacy of Republicans.

Of course, my premise could be entirely wrong, but that's not something anybody would ever want to admit on CD. But I do think that a Republican who is truly in the moderate/pragmatic right range would win if it was ever possible for him or her to be nominated.
 
Old 11-27-2012, 06:25 PM
 
Location: west mich
5,740 posts, read 5,654,959 times
Reputation: 2108
Quote:
Originally Posted by petch751 View Post
LOL, the world is calling the left illiterates.

Give credit to President Obama for exploiting voters’ ignorance to promote the “Commnist Manifesto without calling it so.

Recently, Obama has been re-elected for a 2nd term by an illiterate society and he is ready to continue his lies of less taxes while he raises them…

He is a Communist without question promoting the Communist Manifesto without calling it so. How shrewd he is in America. His cult of personality mesmerizes those who cannot go beyond their ignorance. They will continue to follow him like those fools who still praise Lenin and Stalin in Russia. Obama’s fools and Stalin’s fools share the same drink of illusion.
Wow, you're teetering on the right-wing crazy cliff - about to fall into Cuckoo Canyon. Please say it's just sour grapes.
 
Old 11-27-2012, 06:35 PM
 
Location: west mich
5,740 posts, read 5,654,959 times
Reputation: 2108
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbmsu01 View Post
I'm not sure you understood my post. I'm no fan of Fox News or the Republicans right now in general. You might want to check my posting history.

Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that I don't think that "Left" and "Right" line up exactly with Republicans and Democrats. I think that by in large, right leaning viewpoints outnumber left leaning viewpoints. My personal opinion about the breakdown is the following:

20% extreme far right
20% far right
11% moderate/pragmatic right
12% right-leaning moderates
9% left-leaning moderates
8% moderate/pragmatic left
10% far left
10% extreme far left

This uneven breakdown has interesting effects on the two parties. Democrats can't afford to run people with extreme positions because they would never get elected. Generally, however, their coalition is left-leaning, so their successful candidates are going to be in the moderate/pragmatic left range. On the Republican side, however, while an extreme candidate isn't going to be successful, the hardcore extreme far right types can demand that their candidate be at least what would generally be considered "far right" and still have a chance at success. You can have the moderates that might lean right vote Democrat because the alternative is scarier. The Obama/Biden is in the moderate/pragmatic left range, and the Romney/Ryan ticket was in the far right range from what I can tell.

Personally, I think this conundrum describes my positions very well. I'd like what a lot of the moderate conservative positions are selling, but I almost think that the Democrats are selling that better than the Republicans are right now, even if you have to take a little bit more "Great Society" type stuff with the Democrats to avoid the lunacy of Republicans.

Of course, my premise could be entirely wrong, but that's not something anybody would ever want to admit on CD. But I do think that a Republican who is truly in the moderate/pragmatic right range would win if it was ever possible for him or her to be nominated.
I think you are generally right. From what I saw, Huntsman seemed like a more rational candidate, but you saw what happened to him. Same with some third party candidates.
 
Old 11-27-2012, 08:42 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
20,791 posts, read 41,427,990 times
Reputation: 14036
Quote:
Originally Posted by luzianne View Post
But I do think that a Republican who is truly in the moderate/pragmatic right range would win if it was ever possible for him or her to be nominated.
No worries, there. The Republicans will continue to shoot themselves in the foot by veering even further right. Many still believe the party isn't conservative enough and won't deviate from their belie fs. GOP blogger on C-Span yesterday said, yet again, GOP just has to figure out a way to express their views which doesn't turn people off. How will they do that, I wonder? As a party, they are becoming even more adamant on the issues of gay rights and pro-life. The only issue even remotely open for discussion is immigration reform. They can't agree on that, either. Their primaries are a joke. Newt Gingrich calling Mitt Romney a liar on a national news show. Next primary will be even worse, with the rwnjs screaming even louder. Another large fringe element in that party are the Ron Paul followers. If you really read what Ron Paul believes, we wouldn't have had the Civil Rights Act, we'd still be on the gold standard, wouldn't have enacted any of the anti-discrimination laws. About the only thing that does make sense is not making foreign wars.

I, too, think Huntsman could have been a great candidate. I like what I've seen and heard of him. I couldn't stand the sight or sound of Romney. Huntsman is pro-life but says he won't be aggressive on the issue. However, I still couldn't have voted for him, coming from a party which has such an aggressive and relentless pro-life movement. On that issue, the GOP party platform does mean something. That group scares me. Huntsman, himself, on his website appeared unequivocal on the issue. In my view, rights of the already-born-and-living trump the rights of the unborn.

Nothing that party says or does makes any sense to me in any way. The refusal to accept the results of this election and the pronouncements of their leaders angers me every day. Most ridiculous - John Boehner - gotta put ACA on the table. Well, if the country was so opposed to the ACA as they would like to believe, why did they reelect the President?

So, bye, bye. And, good riddance to the GOP. I hope they are forever relegated to diminishing minority status and put in the corner where they belong. An ignorant, selfish, self-serving bunch, most of 'em.
 
Old 11-27-2012, 09:33 PM
 
Location: San Antonio
2,860 posts, read 4,197,082 times
Reputation: 1572
Quote:
Originally Posted by detwahDJ View Post
I think you are generally right. From what I saw, Huntsman seemed like a more rational candidate, but you saw what happened to him. Same with some third party candidates.
People need to Google Huntsman's record in Utah. He was probably the most "functional" and proven conservative in that race. His brand of conservatism is the only viable path for the future Republican Party. But he was drowned out by the screaming lunatics (Bachman and Santorum). When even Rick Perry, for offering college tuition help for the children of illegal imigrants, gets skewered by his party (and trust me, I am no Rick Perry fan!) there is something seriously dysfunctional about this party.
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