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Old 12-07-2012, 10:01 AM
 
Location: Charlotte NC
11,359 posts, read 8,887,051 times
Reputation: 4965

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America is center right IMO... but those closest to the center aren't interested in being disrespected or talked down to by the GOP. Local issues are more important than abortion and gay marriage to the 10% in the center who lean right.

I'm very conservative on most issues but I'll be damned if I support a party who keeps mentioning welfare and handouts when talking about my race.

 
Old 12-09-2012, 12:18 AM
 
631 posts, read 1,026,715 times
Reputation: 632
Quote:
Originally Posted by Factsplease View Post
OP, I think this is a really good question. Unfortunately most people have nothing but insults to offer. Perhaps you should have titled the thread "Republicans: If you believe America supports your platform, without insulting Democrats, please tell us why you lost?" What they don't get is that the insults are part of the reason they lost.
Yeah, that's kind of what I was getting at. I was expecting to hear a whole lot of "explanations" that consisted of insulting groups of people and I see I wasn't disappointed.

FYI, I think the majority of Americans actually do support the core components of the GOP's message. Who doesn't like low taxes, less government and a stronger America? The biggest problem is messaging. I've always said that the Republican party made a deal with the devil with their southern strategy. It's helped them win elections but in the process they are now being controlled by a backwards constituency that doesn't reflect how most people in this country think. And I'm saying this as a white southerner! Living here, you understand that there is a level of intense religious fundamentalism and racial resentment that is unpalatable to people pretty much everywhere else. But when you have to pander to these people in their language (aka the dog whistle) it paints an unflattering picture.

I thought the GOP would learn its lesson this time around but it doesn't look like it. The big thing now in conservative circles is that people voted for Obama because he gave them gifts. To me this is the most insidious type of coded racial language because it unfairly targets poor minorities and attacks them for a supposed lack of intelligence and work ethic. It's wrong on two counts, that is, that all people on public assistance are minorities (lie) and that they vote for the guy who will give them something for nothing (lie). There are certainly problems with the welfare system, and the Republicans have some good points about personal responsibility, but they use it as a wedge issue to pick up racist whites so I automatically tune them out.

And then there's the idea that single women voted for Obama because they want free birth control so they can have lots of sex! Good luck winning the female vote with that rhetoric. And then of course, there's the assumption that all Hispanics care about is amnesty for their illegal friends and family. Sorry, many Hispanics are just as worried about illegal immigration as the gringo next door, but passing immigration laws based on racial profiling isn't just an attack on illegals, it's an attack on all Hispanics.

They just don't get it.
 
Old 12-09-2012, 12:51 AM
 
Location: NJ
18,677 posts, read 16,452,588 times
Reputation: 7274
Quote:
Originally Posted by workaholics View Post
Yeah, that's kind of what I was getting at. I was expecting to hear a whole lot of "explanations" that consisted of insulting groups of people and I see I wasn't disappointed.

FYI, I think the majority of Americans actually do support the core components of the GOP's message. Who doesn't like low taxes, less government and a stronger America? The biggest problem is messaging. I've always said that the Republican party made a deal with the devil with their southern strategy. It's helped them win elections but in the process they are now being controlled by a backwards constituency that doesn't reflect how most people in this country think. And I'm saying this as a white southerner! Living here, you understand that there is a level of intense religious fundamentalism and racial resentment that is unpalatable to people pretty much everywhere else. But when you have to pander to these people in their language (aka the dog whistle) it paints an unflattering picture.

I thought the GOP would learn its lesson this time around but it doesn't look like it. The big thing now in conservative circles is that people voted for Obama because he gave them gifts. To me this is the most insidious type of coded racial language because it unfairly targets poor minorities and attacks them for a supposed lack of intelligence and work ethic..
I live 35 miles from a rural, 5 county region of Tn that is very dependent on Federal handouts, and largely white. I am also a white male.

The clowns who live there have lousy work ethics (I worked in a mgmt capacity there for a while, and if we got 1 GOOD employee per 3 hired, we were having a good month..even though we paid more than any other regional employer).

I bring that up becaues the people the GOP pander to, this Lowest Common Denominator, are clueless as to how much they have in common with the characature of the groups they despise. Now I do not think the party is clueless, they are just pimping them for votes.

The nature of todays' rural, poor, southern white male vote is reminiscent of the David Duke fans of yesteryear. It is absolutely impossible for the GOP to win more representative, diverse regions of the nation while pandering to these lowlifes. But the party lacks the guts to untether themselves from this sinking ship. Than they act shocked when they get shellacked in POTUS elections, losing 5 of 6 popular votes, with an average over 24 years, of just 203 electoral votes. (203 of 538 is equal to an MLB team going 61-101).

Last edited by bobtn; 12-09-2012 at 01:05 AM..
 
Old 12-09-2012, 01:38 AM
 
6,349 posts, read 8,104,987 times
Reputation: 1758
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
Population density.
Cities voted overwhelmingly Obama. Rual America for Romney. Different needs and priorities.
City dwellers rely much heavier on the gov than rual people.
Rual folks often provide their own water, sewage and garbage removal. WE have less need for large expensive police, fire and sanitation depts.
The bottom line is Rual Americans enjoy much fewer Gov programs. That makes Obama less desirable.
I don't mean any of the above as a condemnation of city people just stating the facts. Rual people due to the nature of the lives we have chosen rely less on the fed. Most Cities would go bust without Fed dollars to keep them floating.
Actually a lot of rural areas are VERY dependent on farm subsidies. Rural red states get a lot more back than they put in than blue urban states.
 
Old 12-09-2012, 04:41 AM
 
12,870 posts, read 12,778,864 times
Reputation: 4446
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feltdesigner View Post
America is center right IMO... but those closest to the center aren't interested in being disrespected or talked down to by the GOP. Local issues are more important than abortion and gay marriage to the 10% in the center who lean right.

I'm very conservative on most issues but I'll be damned if I support a party who keeps mentioning welfare and handouts when talking about my race.
america is not center right, as this election proved-when americans chose to DELIBERATELY elect a lousy president and vote for a lousy economy with a dwindling private sector.

uninformed people voted for the kleptocracy.

america is turning into a country of dependent citizens, waiting for the nanny state to make things better for them-because it seems that they don't understand that the same big government that has actually made things worse for them (bank bailouts, lousy free trade deals, obamacare, wall street crooks getting away with crimes because they are government connected (corzine, et al) , literal housing stealing with federal reserve money printing, taking away citizen rights with expansion of the patriot act, etc.) is somehow really trying to "save them".

i don't think so, and obamacare might just be the final nail in the coffin. if that doesn't do it, i am sure that they have cap and trade waiting in the wings.
 
Old 12-09-2012, 05:29 AM
 
631 posts, read 1,026,715 times
Reputation: 632
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtn View Post
I live 35 miles from a rural, 5 county region of Tn that is very dependent on Federal handouts, and largely white. I am also a white male.

The clowns who live there have lousy work ethics (I worked in a mgmt capacity there for a while, and if we got 1 GOOD employee per 3 hired, we were having a good month..even though we paid more than any other regional employer).

I bring that up becaues the people the GOP pander to, this Lowest Common Denominator, are clueless as to how much they have in common with the characature of the groups they despise. Now I do not think the party is clueless, they are just pimping them for votes.

The nature of todays' rural, poor, southern white male vote is reminiscent of the David Duke fans of yesteryear. It is absolutely impossible for the GOP to win more representative, diverse regions of the nation while pandering to these lowlifes. But the party lacks the guts to untether themselves from this sinking ship. Than they act shocked when they get shellacked in POTUS elections, losing 5 of 6 popular votes, with an average over 24 years, of just 203 electoral votes. (203 of 538 is equal to an MLB team going 61-101).
Very good points.

Quote from Family Guy:

Peter Griffin: "Aw, the South! Isn't that the place where the black guys are lazy, and the white guys are just as lazy, but they're mad at the black guys for being so lazy?"
 
Old 12-09-2012, 05:33 AM
 
631 posts, read 1,026,715 times
Reputation: 632
Quote:
Originally Posted by floridasandy View Post
america is not center right, as this election proved-when americans chose to DELIBERATELY elect a lousy president and vote for a lousy economy with a dwindling private sector.

uninformed people voted for the kleptocracy.

america is turning into a country of dependent citizens, waiting for the nanny state to make things better for them-because it seems that they don't understand that the same big government that has actually made things worse for them (bank bailouts, lousy free trade deals, obamacare, wall street crooks getting away with crimes because they are government connected (corzine, et al) , literal housing stealing with federal reserve money printing, taking away citizen rights with expansion of the patriot act, etc.) is somehow really trying to "save them".

i don't think so, and obamacare might just be the final nail in the coffin. if that doesn't do it, i am sure that they have cap and trade waiting in the wings.
This sounded like typical bitter Republican orthodoxy until you mentioned the wall street and bank bailouts. I agree with you on those. I just wish Americans could be half as outraged over corporate welfare as as they are about some welfare queen on the news.
 
Old 12-09-2012, 09:08 AM
 
Location: Charlotte NC
11,359 posts, read 8,887,051 times
Reputation: 4965
I believe the country is center-right but I don't think it guarantees victory for the GOP. Romney didn't run as a center right candidate... he went too far right in the.primaries and then tried to play it cool in the general. You can't do that in an internet, 24 hour need society... especially when you have Paul Ryan as a running mate.

How does a country deliberately elect someone.. how else is a candidate elected? Accidentally?

Romney kept throwing numbers out but refused to back them up with facts or math... every time someone asked how? Romney didn't have an answer.
 
Old 12-09-2012, 11:57 AM
 
10,963 posts, read 7,761,081 times
Reputation: 3113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feltdesigner View Post
I believe the country is center-right but I don't think it guarantees victory for the GOP. Romney didn't run as a center right candidate... he went too far right in the.primaries and then tried to play it cool in the general. You can't do that in an internet, 24 hour need society... especially when you have Paul Ryan as a running mate.

How does a country deliberately elect someone.. how else is a candidate elected? Accidentally?

Romney kept throwing numbers out but refused to back them up with facts or math... every time someone asked how? Romney didn't have an answer.
As the GOP is currently constituted no GOP presidential candidate can run a "Center-Right" campaign and win. Romney tried to come back to the center somewhat after locking up the nomination the result was a loss of credibility among many voters.
 
Old 12-09-2012, 12:12 PM
 
12,870 posts, read 12,778,864 times
Reputation: 4446
Quote:
Originally Posted by workaholics View Post
This sounded like typical bitter Republican orthodoxy until you mentioned the wall street and bank bailouts. I agree with you on those. I just wish Americans could be half as outraged over corporate welfare as as they are about some welfare queen on the news.
americans aren't outraged by anything anymore.

we don't seem to care about the wars, (even with a possible looming escalation in the mideast now) the excessive spending, foreign aid handouts that just disappear, the crimes that are going unpunished (corzine again, et al), illegal immigrants being rewarded for bad behavior, and all the other bad stuff that is going on in this country now.

look at the absolute THEFT of housing in america, while some people are literally killing themselves over losing their houses and then the lousy federal reserve crooks just print some money and use it to "buy"/confiscate those houses, and nobody cares.

bradley manning is still in jail and petraeus (because of obama) can blab to all of his girlfriends and what happens? oh yeah, nothing.

fast and furious, getting americans and mexicans killed, not a big deal.

embassy workers and an ambassador not rescued but murdered, not a big deal.

lying about it, not a big deal. trotting some UN ambassador to comment on it (like she freaking knows anything) and blame an american filmmaker., and then her being dumb enough to do it, and now she is up for secretary of state. -job well done, i guess.

and then, of course, the weird pseudo-defense-"come after me, not her". what?????

who cares anymore?

obama talking "china tough" on the campaign tour, and then trotting over to asia immediately after winning to suck up.

destroying perfectly good cars so struggling people couldn't have cheap transportation, god forbid? a great government program, not a problem. (where'd the metal go?) we sure don't manufacture anything anymore, but, then again, who cares?:

A gauge of new orders dropped to its lowest level since August, a sign that production could slow in the coming months. Manufacturers also sharply reduced their stockpiles, indicating companies expect weaker demand.

“Today’s report suggests that the manufacturing sector is likely to remain a weak point in the recovery for a few months yet,” Jeremy Lawson, an economist at BNP Paribas, said in a note to clients

not a problem.


up is down and it's a new world order, don't ya know.

Last edited by floridasandy; 12-09-2012 at 12:31 PM..
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