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Old 12-03-2014, 05:11 PM
 
Location: Portland, OR
8,802 posts, read 8,858,962 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
I am pretty sure it was just bad journalism trying to drum up attention with a catchy headline. Which would also explain why there aren't any articles about how bad the traffic actually was.

That would run down where Tacoma St is today, cutting the neighborhood in two and basically killing it. The Sellwood we have today wouldn't exist if you cut an elevated highway through it with off ramps. I am happy that bad idea never happened. Portland is much more liveable thanks to not having these freeways carving up the city.
You have absolutely no way to determine that.

 
Old 12-03-2014, 06:08 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,001 posts, read 34,982,639 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VTHokieFan View Post
You have absolutely no way to determine that.
Yes you can, if these freeways happened, there would be no Sellwood, no Clinton, no Division, no North Williams, no NE Alberta, and neighborhoods like Ladd's Addition would be a shell of itself.

There is an easy way to determine this by simply looking at cities struggling to revive their inner cities after carving them up with freeways. The best thing Portland could have done is protect its inner city and saying no to these unbuilt highways. Portland is doing things right having only 58% of the city driving alone, that means 32% look to much better options for commuting which takes more cars off the road, which is a benefit to the city and its livability.
 
Old 12-04-2014, 11:05 AM
 
Location: Portland, OR
8,802 posts, read 8,858,962 times
Reputation: 4512
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
Yes you can, if these freeways happened, there would be no Sellwood, no Clinton, no Division, no North Williams, no NE Alberta, and neighborhoods like Ladd's Addition would be a shell of itself.

There is an easy way to determine this by simply looking at cities struggling to revive their inner cities after carving them up with freeways. The best thing Portland could have done is protect its inner city and saying no to these unbuilt highways. Portland is doing things right having only 58% of the city driving alone, that means 32% look to much better options for commuting which takes more cars off the road, which is a benefit to the city and its livability.
So what you did is you went back in time in an alternate universe to see a Portland with one extra freeway cutting through Sellwood. Then you continued to the present within that alternate universe to see what a Portland with the Sellwood freeway would look like today. Got it.

What I can tell you is that not building the freeways and relying on people biking and taking public transportation has been a monumental failure
 
Old 12-04-2014, 02:04 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,001 posts, read 34,982,639 times
Reputation: 7875
Quote:
Originally Posted by VTHokieFan View Post
So what you did is you went back in time in an alternate universe to see a Portland with one extra freeway cutting through Sellwood. Then you continued to the present within that alternate universe to see what a Portland with the Sellwood freeway would look like today. Got it.

What I can tell you is that not building the freeways and relying on people biking and taking public transportation has been a monumental failure
Or I know neighborhoods that have had a freeway cut it in half and know what happened to those neighborhoods. That same effect would have happened in Sellwood, not a hard one for people to understand.

Of course it seems like you continue to ignore the fact that 58% of Portland residents commute driving alone. Well below the National average, so not cutting the city up with highways has been a good thing for Portland.

You can deny that all you want but present day Sellwood is the proof of protecting our city neighborhoods to benefit the city.
 
Old 12-04-2014, 03:12 PM
 
Location: Portland, OR
8,802 posts, read 8,858,962 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
Or I know neighborhoods that have had a freeway cut it in half and know what happened to those neighborhoods. That same effect would have happened in Sellwood, not a hard one for people to understand.

Of course it seems like you continue to ignore the fact that 58% of Portland residents commute driving alone. Well below the National average, so not cutting the city up with highways has been a good thing for Portland.

You can deny that all you want but present day Sellwood is the proof of protecting our city neighborhoods to benefit the city.
That's a great feel good statistic that doesn't address the fact that the metro area's highway infrastructure is at critical mass.
 
Old 12-04-2014, 03:42 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VTHokieFan View Post
That's a great feel good statistic that doesn't address the fact that the metro area's highway infrastructure is at critical mass.
And running a freeway through Sellwood wouldn't fix the traffic issues in the suburbs.
 
Old 12-04-2014, 06:38 PM
 
Location: Portland, OR
8,802 posts, read 8,858,962 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
And running a freeway through Sellwood wouldn't fix the traffic issues in the suburbs.
Having another east-west route certainly would.
 
Old 12-04-2014, 07:06 PM
 
Location: Old Mother Idaho
29,167 posts, read 22,137,026 times
Reputation: 23791
Quote:
Originally Posted by VTHokieFan View Post
So what you did is you went back in time in an alternate universe to see a Portland with one extra freeway cutting through Sellwood. Then you continued to the present within that alternate universe to see what a Portland with the Sellwood freeway would look like today. Got it.

What I can tell you is that not building the freeways and relying on people biking and taking public transportation has been a monumental failure
I'm not so sure of that claim. I have two sons who live in Portland and both say otherwise. Both have been living there since the late 90s.

One thing Portland did that other cities did not was limit it's boundaries intentionally before the proposed freeways were built. The Protland suburbs have grown steadily since then, while Portland has not, as much.

By not concentrating commuter traffic onto the freeways like L.A. and so many others, all Portland streets, especially the thoroughfares, are more loaded than they once were, but there are far fewer traffic jams that clog freeways and their exits alike.

Commuters face many stop lights, but each can find the best and quickest way to their job from home and back. As traffic increases, everyone goes slower, but none of it slows to a crawl for hours.

It's a trade-off.

Portland's long range planning is to concentrate the living spaces rather than falling victim to the sprawl, and the city works with it's suburbs more closely than other big cities do. The master plan is designed to avoid becoming another city where traffic is impossible during working hours, when the city fills up, and then becomes devoid of humanity once working hours are over.

Tacoma was what Portland area didn't want to become, starting 25 years or more ago. Tacoma was a good example of what happens when the mother city falls. The suburbs fall like dominoes later on, and all end up with the hurts.
 
Old 12-04-2014, 07:34 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,001 posts, read 34,982,639 times
Reputation: 7875
Quote:
Originally Posted by VTHokieFan View Post
Having another east-west route certainly would.
For who? At most, there should have been a bridge at Milwaukie crossing the Willamette, but cutting through neighborhoods to add more freeways would be unnecessary and wouldn't do anything to really releave traffic, and would just be damaging to the neighborhoods it cut through.

At most, there are some routes that need to be expanded.
 
Old 12-04-2014, 11:01 PM
 
Location: Indianapolis
2,294 posts, read 2,643,944 times
Reputation: 3151
Quote:
Originally Posted by VTHokieFan View Post

What I can tell you is that not building the freeways and relying on people biking and taking public transportation has been a monumental failure
No, it hasn't, and your disdain for Portland is showing...again.
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