Republican voters will stay home if the party puts up another Establishment candidate

[Camlon]

Originally Posted by Hellion1999

Changing your views during a 30 year period from a hard left liberal democrat supporter to a hard right republican conservative is acceptable???? ......that's what we call double standards and being a hypocrite in your arguments.

You are beeing inconsistent here. You said Reagan endorsed him, because Eisenhower was a moderate. Then later you said he went from the hard left.

It is totally acceptable to go from an Eisenhower moderate to a conservative republican over a 30 year period. It is however not acceptable to change pretty much every position over a 5 year period, because you are running for President.

And as pointed out before, even if you succeed trashing Reagan. It still won't make Romney a good candidate. Romney does not become less of a liar, even if Reagan lied.

you really need utube videos to show the flip flops of the Bush family in their political careers?......how old are you again? ....lol

You said the video is irrelevant, because you can find similar for Bush.

Now I am giving you the chance. Give me a 3-5 minute video of flip flps from the Bush family.

[Hellion1999]

Originally Posted by Camlon

You are beeing inconsistent here. You said Reagan endorsed him, because Eisenhower was a moderate. Then later you said he went from the hard left.

you are clueless about Reagan. He was a liberal democrat, then he transformed to a moderate then to a conservative Barry Goldwater Republican....that was his transformation. Why you are arguing this is beyond believe.

Originally Posted by Camlon

It is totally acceptable to go from an Eisenhower moderate to a conservative republican over a 30 year period. It is however not acceptable to change pretty much every position over a 5 year period, because you are running for President.

Romney ran for U.S. senate to beat incumbent democrat darling Ted Kennedy in 1994 when he was pro choice, he didn't run for president until 2008 whe n he change to pro life , I think my calculator says its 14 years not 5 year period. Maybe your calculator works differently.

Reagan was governor of California from 1967 to 1975 with a moderate record as governor and signing bills of pro choice abortions while governor , he ran on a conservative platform on PRO LIFE 5 years later........I guess that is acceptable to you because it doesn't fit your argument....LMAO!!! at least be consistent in your arguments. Because right now you have double standards in flip flopping and you are making it worse each time you make excuses and exceptions for Reagan.

Originally Posted by Camlon

And as pointed out before, even if you succeed trashing Reagan. It still won't make Romney a good candidate. Romney does not become less of a liar, even if Reagan lied.

how am I trashing Reagan?....He governed California as a moderate and pro choice governor and when he ran for President 5 years later he ran on a conservative pro life platform....how is that trashing Reagan? you are missing my point. Politicians have to change their positions depending on the political electorate they have to face. Both parties do that.....at least be consistent in your flip flopping critique on all the politicians not just the ones you personally don't like.

Originally Posted by Camlon

You said the video is irrelevant, because you can find similar for Bush.

Now I am giving you the chance. Give me a 3-5 minute video of flip flps from the Bush family.

so your argument is that if I don't put a UTUBE video of Bush SR. and W BUSH flip flopping that means they haven't flip flopped in their political careers? LMAO!!!


how old are u again?......if you only look at utube to get your political information and history then it explains your silly and double standard arguments...lol

[Camlon]

Originally Posted by Hellion1999

you are clueless about Reagan. He was a liberal democrat, then he transformed to a moderate then to a conservative Barry Goldwater Republican....that was his transformation. Why you are arguing this is beyond believe.

He was a democrat right after the war, when he was 35 years old. But as pointed out, the parties back then had little resembelence to the parties in 1980. I bet Reagan was very proud of how FDR acted against the nazi regime and Japan.

He then endorsed the Republican candidate when he was 41 years old.

Romney ran for U.S. senate to beat incumbent democrat darling Ted Kennedy in 1994 when he was pro choice, he didn't run for president until 2008 whe n he change to pro life , I think my calculator says its 14 years not 5 year period. Maybe your calculator works differently.

Romney didn't change all his positions in 1994.

Many of his positions changed after he became a governor in Massachutes. In Massachutes he run as moderate, in the presidental election he run as a true conservative. I don't believe him.

Reagan was governor of California from 1967 to 1975 with a moderate record as governor and signing bills of pro choice abortions while governor , he ran on a conservative platform on PRO LIFE 5 years later.

This has been answered before

Reagan increased taxes to balance the budget, and he froze government hiring. He has also increased taxes as President when he realized he had cut it too much. The abortion argument is already debunked. Romney wrong that his abortion flip flop like Reagan's

Last time you tried to attack the source, instead of the arguments it contains.

how am I trashing Reagan?....He governed California as a moderate and pro choice governor and when he ran for President 5 years later he ran on a conservative pro life platform....how is that trashing Reagan?

You are claiming Reagan is a liar like Romney who changes his view depending on which position he is trying to take. But it is not an argument for Romney, it is an argument against Reagan.

Why not try to defend Romney without trying to use Reagan as a defence.

so your argument is that if I don't put a UTUBE video of Bush SR. and W BUSH flip flopping that means they haven't flip flopped in their political careers? LMAO!!!


how old are u again?......if you only look at utube to get your political information and history then it explains your silly and double standard arguments...lol

So you are not able to provide a video. So you were pretty much wrong, when you said that you will be able to provide a similar video of the Bush family.

You are very good at making personal attacks, are you equally good at providing evidence to support your claims?

[Hellion1999]

Originally Posted by Camlon

He was a democrat right after the war, when he was 35 years old. But as pointed out, the parties back then had little resembelence to the parties in 1980. I bet Reagan was very proud of how FDR acted against the nazi regime and Japan.

what? dude you get more clueless about Reagan with each post you write. Reagan was a liberal democrat way before WW 2, way before 1932 when he was a NEW DEAL supporter. WW2 had nothing to do why he was a liberal democrat or why he switched later. It had to do about taxes, federal government expansion and the war on communism which the democrat party were kinda soft in the 50's and 60's.

Any President regardless of party would have handled the Nazis and Japan after the attack on Pearl Harbor and Nazi declaring war on the U.S. after Pearl Harbor.

Originally Posted by Camlon

He then endorsed the Republican candidate when he was 41 years old.

a republican moderate candidate in Eisenhower....what's your point? Reagan change to a Goldwater conservative in the 60's.

Originally Posted by Camlon

Romney didn't change all his positions in 1994.

the only big position that Romney changed from 1994 to 2008 was pro choice to pro life.....Reagan did the same thing.

Originally Posted by Camlon

Many of his positions changed after he became a governor in Massachutes. In Massachutes he run as moderate, in the presidental election he run as a true conservative. I don't believe him.

just like Reagan did when he became governor for California and later ran for President 5 years later....but I forgot, you have a double standard on flip flopping for politicians you don't like.

Originally Posted by Camlon

Last time you tried to attack the source, instead of the arguments it contains.

I'm not attacking the source but putting things under perspective...The tea party right wing of the Republican has a bad memory of Reagan. They don't like moderate republican governors in blue state running for president because they are not "TRUE CONSERVATIVES" but ignore a big fact that their idol Ronald Reagan was a moderate Republican in a blue state of California and was pro choice in abortion as governor.....they want to make all excuses for him why he changed.....the same thing you are doing here....LOL

Originally Posted by Camlon

You are claiming Reagan is a liar like Romney who changes his view depending on which position he is trying to take. But it is not an argument for Romney, it is an argument against Reagan.

You said Reagan lied? lying is saying that you will govern 1 way during the campaign and doing the opposite when you get to office . Reagan changed some of his positions when he was governor of California and then when he ran for President. Most politicians do that......I never said anything about lying. Just like Romney running for governor in a very liberal state like Mass. No conservative can win in that state, so a republican has to be moderate.

Originally Posted by Camlon

Why not try to defend Romney without trying to use Reagan as a defence.

I'm just pointing out your hypocrisy and double standard. All career politicians have flip flop or had a change of heart.....the problem is how you only apply it to the politicians you personally dont like and give a pass to the ones you like.

Originally Posted by Camlon

So you are not able to provide a video. So you were pretty much wrong, when you said that you will be able to provide a similar video of the Bush family.

You are very good at making personal attacks, are you equally good at providing evidence to support your claims?

because I don't have time to look in UTUBE or the democrat party political archives on the Bush's flip flops.............if you need a utube video to show the flip flopping of the Bush family from:


"READ MY LIPS NO NEW TAXES"......"I'm against Nation building" and the list goes on and on then you don't know much about American politics, or the Bush family or history, the reason I asked you how old are you?

who is attacking you personally? I don't know you.

[Camlon]

Originally Posted by Hellion1999

what? dude you get more clueless about Reagan with each post you write. Reagan was a liberal democrat way before WW 2, way before 1932 when he was a NEW DEAL supporter.

I never said he was not a democrat before the war, but as pointed out a million times to you. Those were different times, Republicans and Democrats were not the same parties as they were in the 80s. For instance Hoover increased top taxes from 25% to 63% and he was a Republican. He also was in favour of protectionism. I totally understand that he would support FDR and the new deal in the 30-40. In the 50s he started to support Republican candidates and later Reagan became a conservative Barry Goldwater Republican. Reagan transformation makes sense. Romneys transformation is too sudden, and is too politically convenient.

However, it was a mistake of me to let you start the stupid debate about Reagan. I don't care about Reagan, he is not my hero. Lets say he is a despicable liar who changes his position depending on which office he runs for.

Now that Reagan is out of the picture, can you now defend Romney. I and many others don't think Romneys views are genuine. Pretty much everything he was defending in 94, he was against in 2008. And even in Massachutes he campaigned as a moderate republican and he implemented Obamacare light in his state. A candidate who has to run away from his past, is not a good presidental candidate.

But yes, Mitt Romney is not the only candidate who has flip flopped, Kerry is another candidate like that and just like Romney it cost him politically.

because I don't have time to look in UTUBE or the democrat party political archives on the Bush's flip flops.............if you need a utube video to show the flip flopping of the Bush family from:

"READ MY LIPS NO NEW TAXES"......"I'm against Nation building" and the list goes on

"I'm against nation building" is certainly a flip flop. The taxes is a broken promise. But what they have in common is that they happen after they become President and they lost popularity due to it. You however, want everyone to ignore all of Romneys flipflops.

You don't have to use youtube. Show me any video, which is similar to the one I showed you from Romney. You said it was easy, how come you are not able to follow up?

[Hellion1999]

Originally Posted by Camlon

I never said he was not a democrat before the war, but as pointed out a million times to you. Those were different times, Republicans and Democrats were not the same parties as they were in the 80s. For instance Hoover increased top taxes from 25% to 63% and he was a Republican. He also was in favour of protectionism. I totally understand that he would support FDR and the new deal in the 30-40. In the 50s he started to support Republican candidates and later Reagan became a conservative Barry Goldwater Republican. Reagan transformation makes sense. Romneys transformation is too sudden, and is too politically convenient.

Forget Reagan's past in the 30's, 40' and 50's that's too much confusion for you.....lets just stick when Reagan was 56 years old when he became governor of California from 1967 to 1975. He was a moderate Republican governor who was pro choice on abortions then 5 years later when he ran for president he ran as a conservative pro life candidate.....explain that? Reagan can do it but Romney can't? that to me is very inconsistent in your flip flopping argument.

Originally Posted by Camlon

However, it was a mistake of me to let you start the stupid debate about Reagan. I don't care about Reagan, he is not my hero. Lets say he is a despicable liar who changes his position depending on which office he runs for.

mistake is you keep doubling down on your double standards on flip flopping/changing views......who said anything about lying???? changing views before you get to office is not lying......lying is what Obama said about Obamacare of keeping your doctor when in fact he knew that wasn't the case, that is lying.....Reagan changing views on abortion is not lying but his record as governor of California would have conflicts with the religious right and conservative base of the party today.

Originally Posted by Camlon

Now that Reagan is out of the picture, can you now defend Romney. I and many others don't think Romneys views are genuine. Pretty much everything he was defending in 94, he was against in 2008. And even in Massachutes he campaigned as a moderate republican and he implemented Obamacare light in his state. A candidate who has to run away from his past, is not a good presidental candidate.
But yes, Mitt Romney is not the only candidate who has flip flopped, Kerry is another candidate like that and just like Romney it cost him politically.

"I'm against nation building" is certainly a flip flop. The taxes is a broken promise. But what they have in common is that they happen after they become President and they lost popularity due to it. You however, want everyone to ignore all of Romneys flipflops.
You don't have to use youtube. Show me any video, which is similar to the one I showed you from Romney. You said it was easy, how come you are not able to follow up?

sure, you decide what is out the picture to fit your narrative...lol............that's your opinion if you think Romneys views are not genuine.....he was a good governor and knows the free market and the economy well and saved the 2002 Olympics from bankruptcy, that's more than whatever W BUSH or Obama did before they came to the W.H. and messed things up.


All presidents have flip flopped....you want me to give you a list of flip flops from the Clintons and Obama? the list is long.......to hold Romney to a different standard in flip flopping when all of them do the same thing is hypocritical and inconsistent from your part.

[AuburnAL]

Originally Posted by Trace21230

The GOP definitely needs to nominate a conservative. That means realizing that Democrats are LYING when they say "I'd consider a moderate GOP candidate like ____ (Huntsman, Jeb, whoever)."

They repeat that lie every election cycle and then turn around and vote for the extremist liberal nominated by the Democrats.

The GOP needs to stop letting liberals and Democrats select its presidential nominee.

Until they change the primary system or go third party it won't happen.

[BentBow]

Originally Posted by Camlon

It wasn't Reagan who changed, it was the circumstances who changed. During 1930-1945 it was a totally different time compared to 1980. For instance government spending was only about 20% of GDP, and both sides agreed on social issues. Republicans had been a total failure on economic policy and was favouring protectionism. Also, Reagan didn't "flip flop" on abortion like Romney did, read here Romney wrong that his abortion flip flop like Reagan's

Reagan was quite young when he supported the Democrats and the circuimstances was very different. Romney was a moderate when he was 50, and then suddenly changed views when he started considering beeing a President. Doesn't seem very genuine.



Many republicans are also in favour of immigration reform, and doesn't mind common core. Same with the medicare reform, which allows seniors to get the medicines they need to have a healthy retirement.

Jeb Bush may be in favour of some left wing proposals, but Romney was in favour of severall left wing proposals in early 2000, he just suddenly changed his view of everything right before he wanted to become President. I don't like him, because I feel he is a liar.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9njHHyRI7g

Yes, we have had two progressive parties to choose from in the last 100 years, with a short stint of conservative live and let live policies, creating the most prosperous time in this nations history. Until another progressive ruined a good thing, the conservative attitude created.