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Old 01-11-2015, 02:25 PM
 
491 posts, read 243,111 times
Reputation: 219

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsjj251 View Post
No, you said the " the party" is fixated with identity politics in that post, not "the far left", and it isnt the far left's platform either. Howard Dean is the freaking leader of the progressive movement.



I have objections to both statements, but seeing as I am a Democrat and you spent far more time on your statement about Democrats, i am more inclined to respond to that part of your statement.
I respect your opinion, and I should say that the statements I made were just beliefs on my part. (They obviously cannot be proven 100% true.) I do apologize for my rudeness, but these are my honest opinions.

Just to clarify, I think that both the far left and the far right exercise a lot of control over what the Democrats and Republicans, respectively, do. So while many Democrats would have no problem with two whites on the ticket, I believe that the far left's objections would be so loud as to force the Democratic nominee not to choose a white running mate. And, of course, many Republicans would have no problem with two minorities on the ticket, but because of the objections of the far right, I believe that a double minority ticket isn't possible.

As a mentioned previously, the far left and the far right would make exceptions to the above objections if one of their "darlings" was selected. For instance, Hillary would have no problem if she tapped Elizabeth Warren or Howard Dean. Similarly, Jeb Bush (who is "culturally Hispanic") is free to choose Ted Cruz or Ben Carson.
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Old 01-11-2015, 02:32 PM
 
491 posts, read 243,111 times
Reputation: 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtn View Post
I doubt the left cares who Hillary pairs with. You might have a point with a lesser choice, say Biden, but HC will be free to choose whomever she desires.
I respectfully disagree with you Bobtn. I certainly wish this were the case. (In fact, I wish that the presidential nominee could choose his or her VP without regard to any political considerations.) But while a large portion of the Democratic Party loves Hillary, I believe that those on the far left are suspicious of her. I suspect (though perphaps I am incorrect) that she will have to chose a minority--most likely Julian Castro--in order to appease them. (As mentioned previously, she could also appease them by chosing a white person who is a Warren type.)
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Old 01-11-2015, 02:35 PM
 
Location: Pine Grove,AL
23,290 posts, read 11,531,083 times
Reputation: 4315
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dole-McCain Republican View Post
I respect your opinion, and I should say that the statements I made were just beliefs on my part. (They obviously cannot be proven 100% true.) I do apologize for my rudeness, but these are my honest opinions.

Just to clarify, I think that both the far left and the far right exercise a lot of control over what the Democrats and Republicans, respectively, do. So while many Democrats would have no problem with two whites on the ticket, I believe that the far left's objections would be so loud as to force the Democratic nominee not to choose a white running mate. And, of course, many Republicans would have no problem with two minorities on the ticket, but because of the objections of the far right, I believe that a double minority ticket isn't possible.

As a mentioned previously, the far left and the far right would make exceptions to the above objections if one of their "darlings" was selected. For instance, Hillary would have no problem if she tapped Elizabeth Warren or Howard Dean. Similarly, Jeb Bush (who is "culturally Hispanic") is free to choose Ted Cruz or Ben Carson.
No need to apologize. I understand your argument, i just completely disagree as the leaders of the far left are themselves white.

And while progressives do indeed have a foothold in party politics, they have lost ground. Harry Reid, regardless of his attacks from the right, is not far left. He has a B rating from the NRA, LOL. Pelosi is more left leaning, but is far from a progressive. even Peter Shumlin(DGA) isnt all that Progressive, more of a populist(in my opinion).
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Old 01-11-2015, 02:39 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,677 posts, read 17,060,805 times
Reputation: 7282
Dole McCain Republican, The left has less clout with the party than you think.

2 main 08 contenders-one wanted single payer, the other gov't healthcare, but NOT single payer. The former was favored by the left, and their candidate came in 2nd in delegates. Her name was Hillary Clinton.
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Old 01-11-2015, 03:14 PM
 
36,750 posts, read 16,351,280 times
Reputation: 9888
So now our electorate has been reduced to identity politics? WTH is this country coming to? I am white but I couldn't care less what a candidate's skin color/race or ethnic makeup is. My requirement would be that they uphold our laws and work for the American people (not some special interest group either). If they do or don't look like me I don't give a damn.
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Old 01-11-2015, 03:20 PM
 
36,750 posts, read 16,351,280 times
Reputation: 9888
Quote:
Originally Posted by wehotex View Post
I believe that Jeb Bush is MORE Latino than Rubio. Rubies ancestors are White and come from Cubas aristocracy that tend to look down on mestizos (the majority of Latinos in the US). At least Jeb married a Mexican national ( who looks mexican) and has children that resemble us. I still wouldn't vote for either one, but would vote for Jeb over Rubio any day of the week if I had to.
Jeb Bush is not Latino. He's not from any Latino country. Many Hispanics are white from their Spanish ancestors so most Hispanics share that same racial makeup in part anyway. Doesn't matter if they are Puerto Rican, Cuban or Mexican many if not most have Spanish ancestors (white). So now it comes down to looks and skin color?
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Old 01-11-2015, 03:51 PM
 
Location: Old Bellevue, WA
18,794 posts, read 14,266,872 times
Reputation: 7950
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtn View Post
Dole McCain Republican, The left has less clout with the party than you think.

2 main 08 contenders-one wanted single payer, the other gov't healthcare, but NOT single payer. The former was favored by the left, and their candidate came in 2nd in delegates. Her name was Hillary Clinton.
But Pres. Obama is also on record as favoring single payer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpAyan1fXCE

He won in 2008 because he had a superior ground game to Hillary Clinton, starting in Iowa where he won by nearly doubling turnout from 2004. It had little to do with the Democratic left wing vs. the moderate wing.
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Old 01-11-2015, 04:11 PM
 
50,526 posts, read 26,688,716 times
Reputation: 15803
Rubio has no shot. Forget it.
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Old 01-11-2015, 04:48 PM
 
Location: San Antonio Texas
11,435 posts, read 16,466,592 times
Reputation: 5224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Jeb Bush is not Latino. He's not from any Latino country. Many Hispanics are white from their Spanish ancestors so most Hispanics share that same racial makeup in part anyway. Doesn't matter if they are Puerto Rican, Cuban or Mexican many if not most have Spanish ancestors (white). So now it comes down to looks and skin color?
It's not JUST skin color. As you know, I am Mex-American. I'm the darkest in my family. In France, they question my American-ness. One witch wished me a "happy Ramadan". I''ve encountered both kinds of Cuban-Americans, arrogant and non-arrogant. Because of my early life experiences, I look at Cubans and argentinians (the whites) skeptically. In these experiences, those people were "Don't EVEN think that we're ANYTHING like you
(mexican) in an area where mex-America were the predominant Latinos. They considered themselves superior. The first time that I heard it, I cried. I was a young boy. Yes, I've met some wonderful Cuban Americans since then, but I'm suspicious of them. They are "Hispanic" Only when it's convenient. Cubans have also benefitted from the "wet foot, dry foot", government handouts, loans, etc. they dont really share the stereotypical Hispanic experience. Rubio looks like another one of the "tenidos" to me who paints a picture of growing up in poverty and succeeding in this country- the "Hispanic Elizabeth Warren"

Last edited by wehotex; 01-11-2015 at 05:12 PM..
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Old 01-11-2015, 05:05 PM
 
1,059 posts, read 1,080,609 times
Reputation: 559
rubio is a fraud. It isn't even given he could even hold on to his senate seat in a presidential election cycle voting environment.
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