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Old 03-01-2015, 06:31 PM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
27,414 posts, read 15,827,676 times
Reputation: 9902

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Oh please, comparing not advocating for gay marriage in the traditional sense to the plight of Black Americans is totally ridiculous. Change the rules for a civil union for gays then. It's really that simple. It reminds me of those who try and defend illegal immigration by trying to compare them to Black Americans and the Civil Rights Era also.
But it is separate but equal by having civil unions being second class marriage for gay American the same as Black Americans having to use and live in less desirable places than their White American equals. That is what I am talking about. Through the lettering of civil unions in many cases it is a second class right, similar to Blacks under separate but equal Jim Crow laws up until 50/60 years ago. The problem is some people (namely Christian conservatives) don't want to change that and in fact discriminate them and not even give them the right to "marry" through a civil union.
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Old 03-01-2015, 06:33 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 30,775,658 times
Reputation: 14583
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
You do realize that the Tea Party Grassroots, are Independents.
Instead of pushing, you need to pull them.
Mitt Romney & John McCain had the Establishment base, but pulled no independent voters.
Ron Paul on the other hand, had the Establishment base by proxy. They were not going to let a Democrat hold the power. But Ron Paul also had the Independent silent majority too, which would have put a Republican in the Whitehouse.

So, Who is really costing the GOP elections?
The New World Order? The Globalist? The MONEY that makes the world go around?
They don't care if it is a Republican or Democrat, as long as they are a Globalist Progressive, protecting the ruling rich.
The media is just the propaganda wing of the Global New World Order Progressives. Where Freedom & Liberty, disrupts the plan


The reason Ted Cruz and Rand Paul are already getting the attack launched early, by big MONEY, at them both.
You're correct. We really have a three party system with part of the group that would have voted republican voting for independents which results in liberal victories with a minority of votes. Conservatives cannot win as long as they are a fractured group. Liberals rally behind one candidate. Conservatives don't. So liberals win.
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Old 03-01-2015, 07:05 PM
 
37,103 posts, read 16,438,666 times
Reputation: 9984
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
But it is separate but equal by having civil unions being second class marriage for gay American the same as Black Americans having to use and live in less desirable places than their White American equals. That is what I am talking about. Through the lettering of civil unions in many cases it is a second class right, similar to Blacks under separate but equal Jim Crow laws up until 50/60 years ago. The problem is some people (namely Christian conservatives) don't want to change that and in fact discriminate them and not even give them the right to "marry" through a civil union.
You can argue till you are blue in the face but I will never agree with you. You won't even address the points I made about sisters and brothers being able to marry under your so-called equality BS and it's because you know I'm right. The line has to be drawn somewhere and it is just stretching the Constitution with kinds of bizarre so-called equality claims.

I have no problem with a civil union for gays. And many other conservatives don't either. It is a "traditional" marriage they object to.
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Old 03-01-2015, 07:49 PM
 
Location: Old Hippie Heaven
18,338 posts, read 8,262,732 times
Reputation: 10704
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
I have no problem with a civil union for gays. And many other conservatives don't either. It is a "traditional" marriage they object to.
You are ignoring the fact that all legal marriages in the US are civil unions. We know this because the marriage license is issued by the state and not by the clergy. Religious sanctification is totally optional.
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Old 03-01-2015, 08:23 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,677 posts, read 17,091,029 times
Reputation: 7282
Amen, jacqueg.

There is nothing "official" about any religious ceremony. The legal document is the sole official legal means of recognizing marriage.
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Old 03-01-2015, 08:43 PM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
1,982 posts, read 1,811,276 times
Reputation: 1525
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
You can argue till you are blue in the face but I will never agree with you. You won't even address the points I made about sisters and brothers being able to marry under your so-called equality BS and it's because you know I'm right. The line has to be drawn somewhere and it is just stretching the Constitution with kinds of bizarre so-called equality claims.

I have no problem with a civil union for gays. And many other conservatives don't either. It is a "traditional" marriage they object to.
I would suggest getting over the issue of gay marriage. It is going to be legalized nationally this summer and once it is, it isn't going away.
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Old 03-01-2015, 08:48 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,677 posts, read 17,091,029 times
Reputation: 7282
But Ace, you are being rational. Rational and the GOP base are mutually exclusive.
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Old 03-01-2015, 08:50 PM
 
Location: US
3,092 posts, read 3,455,623 times
Reputation: 1639
Completely agree Tricitiestitan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRICITIESTITAN View Post
The Tea Party, whether true or not, is considered extreme and uncompromising. The brand is tainted and nationally unelectable. On top of that...most Americans aren't hard right or hard left. They fit somewhere in the middle. Most people don't identify with Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders, or Ted Cruz and Rand Paul.

As a Republican...it is my hope that the party will embrace Jeb Bush or more Eisenhower type Republicans moving forward. These are the types that will do well on the national stage. What kills us during national elections is having to swing SO FAR to the right during primaries...and then tow back to the middle during the general election. It's hard to walk that line.
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Old 03-01-2015, 08:55 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,677 posts, read 17,091,029 times
Reputation: 7282
Ditto those sentiments, carolac and TRICITIESTITAN.
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Old 03-01-2015, 09:46 PM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
27,414 posts, read 15,827,676 times
Reputation: 9902
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
You can argue till you are blue in the face but I will never agree with you. You won't even address the points I made about sisters and brothers being able to marry under your so-called equality BS and it's because you know I'm right. The line has to be drawn somewhere and it is just stretching the Constitution with kinds of bizarre so-called equality claims.

I have no problem with a civil union for gays. And many other conservatives don't either. It is a "traditional" marriage they object to.
Here's why I "never replied to your points."
First off, others fought the unborn issues as for right now the constitution includes born, mainly because do we consider a certain term or conception when a baby has all of their rights?
Second off, you use the slippery slope argument that because we allow gay marriage (albeit civil unions) must mean we now must allow incestuous marriage too (others use polygamy in the place of incest.) The difference here is that unlike gay marriage or even polygamy a brother and sister or two cousins WITHOUT getting a visectamy or hysterectomy could have a more likely chance of having children born with congenital deformities thanks to recessive genes in the family bloodline. By comparison a gay couple cannot actually have children without a surrogate (sperm donor for lesbians or egg donor for gay men.) Family getting married would have to have protected sex or have a sexless marriage. YES, there are cases that recessive genes don't pop-up but it is a crap shot with a known issue rather than a possible with non-related people marrying. And before you bring it up, polygamy is illegal out of simplicity of spousal benefits.

I only have a problem with civil unions for gays because 1, not every state recognizes it and 2, they don't exactly get all the legal benefits a civil union between a man and a woman have.
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